Do you have a religion?

[JKD Student]

Now, I am not just spiritual; I am a Christian. The term was derived from Jesus Christ. What separates my being a Christian from another religious is not the belief in just certain specifics in the Bible, but on my works that are Christ-like. Christians strive to live a life that is Christ-like - always giving.

The term "Christian" was obviously derived from the name "Jesus Christ", but the beliefs that make a Christian are derived from Christian tradition. If believing in Jesus' virgin birth and resurrection is not part of your definition for Christian, then you have departed from that tradition. If you have been a Catholic student all your life, surely you have no argument with that. Things like honesty, self-sacrifice, responsibility, altruism and more are not teachings exclusive to Christianity, nor were Jesus or Christianity the first to teach them. While these things are a part of Christianity, they don't make you Christian any more than they make you Buddhist without the other more specific claims that Christianity makes about who Jesus is.

[Ferdie]

The term "Christian" was obviously derived from the name "Jesus Christ", but the beliefs that make a Christian are derived from Christian tradition. If believing in Jesus' virgin birth and resurrection is not part of your definition for Christian, then you have departed from that tradition. If you have been a Catholic student all your life, surely you have no argument with that. Things like honesty, self-sacrifice, responsibility, altruism and more are not teachings exclusive to Christianity, nor were Jesus or Christianity the first to teach them. While these things are a part of Christianity, they don't make you Christian any more than they make you Buddhist without the other more specific claims that Christianity makes about who Jesus is.

I didn't say I did not believe virgin birth & resurrection. I said I believe it but also want to find something concrete to prove it to those who do not believe it. That is why I wrote, "to strengthen my beliefs". Faith is belief in something that you don't see. And yet when the faithful say this, they are questioned to prove it. When the faithful tries to understand & look for ways to prove such a Faith, they are branded as not being Christians anymore. (Look at what you're writing to me now.) Take my analogy on the parting of the sea a couple of posts above. Now, it may or may not be possible to prove virgin birth & resurrection but in either case, it becomes a matter of Faith.

I don't think any Christian in this thread ever said anything about having those virtues you mentioned above being specific to Christianity alone. I know I even mentioned that different religions are but different paths by w/c to reach the same destination. Christians follow the life & teachings of Jesus. It may be the same as Muslims or Buddhists but it is only because when it is good, it is good.

Now you mentioned Christian tradition. You do not refer to the Bible's literature as tradition. Tradition would be the ritual practices of the Catholic Church or the ritual practices of Methodists, etc., etc. The Bible's words are not tradition. They are the accounts of events that happened during it's time. Again, how the authors depicted the events is a matter of norms when the different books of the Bible were written.

[JKD Student]

I didn't say I did not believe virgin birth & resurrection. I said I believe it but also want to find something concrete to prove it to those who do not believe it. That is why I wrote, "to strengthen my beliefs".

I think finding evidence to support their beliefs is an excellent idea for everyone.

Faith is belief in something that you don't see. And yet when the faithful say this, they are questioned to prove it. When the faithful tries to understand & look for ways to prove such a Faith, they are branded as not being Christians anymore. (Look at what you're writing to me now.)

I did not intend to brand anyone with anything, especially anything negative as a result of their desire to find evidential support for their beliefs.

Previously you said, "What separates my being a Christian from another religious is not the belief in just certain specifics in the Bible, but on my works that are Christ-like. Christians strive to live a life that is Christ-like - always giving".

My point is only that one can't leave out the specifics of traditional Christianity and still call his or herself Christian because they try to be Christ-like in their life. It's like a girl calling herself a boy because she tries to live the life of a boy. Living the life of a boy is only a part of the equation, and it isn't the definitive part. Having certain genetic traits is part of the definition of boy in the same way that believing in certain traditions is part of the definition of Christianity. I don't think anyone on the list has explicitly contradicted this, but I wanted to have your agreement so there was no waffling. It's hard to have a successful discussion if we aren't using the same definitions for the important terms.

Take my analogy on the parting of the sea a couple of posts above. Now, it may or may not be possible to prove virgin birth & resurrection but in either case, it becomes a matter of Faith.

Things that have been proven, or have a very high percentage of correlation are not so much a matter of faith. Faith is reserved for things that are difficult to believe given what we know of how the world works. Faith is not always a good thing, to understate my opinion.

I don't think any Christian in this thread ever said anything about having those virtues you mentioned above being specific to Christianity alone. I know I even mentioned that different religions are but different paths by w/c to reach the same destination. Christians follow the life & teachings of Jesus. It may be the same as Muslims or Buddhists but it is only because when it is good, it is good.

Christian tradition teaches that different religions are not different paths by which to reach the same destination. The only destination of consequence is eternity with God in Heaven, and the only path is through belief in Jesus as the son of God and his sacrifice for our sins according to Christian traditions. This is the kind of waffling I hoped to avoid by defining terms.

You said previously, "What separates my being a Christian from another religious is not the belief in just certain specifics in the Bible, but on my works that are Christ-like. Christians strive to live a life that is Christ-like - always giving"

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, or maybe you didn't say what you meant. This is also dangerously close to departing from traditional christian beliefs.

Now you mentioned Christian tradition. You do not refer to the Bible's literature as tradition. Tradition would be the ritual practices of the Catholic Church or the ritual practices of Methodists, etc., etc. The Bible's words are not tradition. They are the accounts of events that happened during it's time. Again, how the authors depicted the events is a matter of norms when the different books of the Bible were written.

Not all accounts in the Bible are of events that happened during its time, although it does seem to include some historical documentation. Take the creation story or the story of Adam and Eve for instance. Revelation is another example. None of the authors claim to have been around to witness these events. In addition, it is very difficult for scholars to determine the accuracy of historical Biblical accounts this long after they happened.

I am interested in your further responses in this thread, so please respond if you feel led to do so. But I'm going to be quiet for a while and allow some other folks to chime in.

[Ferdie]

Interesting.

My point is only that one can't leave out the specifics of traditional Christianity and still call his or herself Christian because they try to be Christ-like in their life. It's like a girl calling herself a boy because she tries to live the life of a boy.

I beg to disagree on the analogy of a girl calling herself a boy. It would be an analogy befitting with a Buddhist calling himself a Christian. They are way too different from each other.

Living the life of a boy is only a part of the equation, and it isn't the definitive part. Having certain genetic traits is part of the definition of boy in the same way that believing in certain traditions is part of the definition of Christianity. I don't think anyone on the list has explicitly contradicted this, but I wanted to have your agreement so there was no waffling. It's hard to have a successful discussion if we aren't using the same definitions for the important terms.

I don’t really understand what you mean by traditional Christianity. If we stick to the definition of tradition, it would mean the beliefs or processes that were handed down from one generation to the next. Now if that is the case, then everything about the Bible would be traditional & there wouldn’t be any need to brand Christianity as being traditional or otherwise. What is written in the Bible is what Christians believe in. It is what is. However, believing any of the miracles in the Bible & proving it happened are two different things.

Things that have been proven, or have a very high percentage of correlation are not so much a matter of faith. .

Ah, but a lot of the things that were “proven” were once thought of to be impossible. And even when they were “proven”, there are still questions in the explanation. Take the parting of the sea; no one could really say concretely that it was tide changes. It really could have been an actual parting of a huge body of water where there were these two walls of water on both sides of the path opened to the Israelites.

Faith is reserved for things that are difficult to believe given what we know of how the world works. .

I agree.

Faith is not always a good thing, to understate my opinion. .

No, Faith is always a good thing. Faith without the effort of helping one’s self is what is bad. Faith isn’t about leaving everything in the hands of God. Faith is knowing that God would be there with you as you go about the tasks you need to accomplish to reach an ultimate goal. It even says in the Bible that for God to help you, you must first help yourself. One of the effects of Faith is optimism at a time of great lost.

Christian tradition teaches that different religions are not different paths by which to reach the same destination. The only destination of consequence is eternity with God in Heaven, and the only path is through belief in Jesus as the son of God and his sacrifice for our sins according to Christian traditions. This is the kind of waffling I hoped to avoid by defining terms.

I did say that I was the one who mentioned that the different religions are but different paths by which to reach the same destination. I could not speak for any other person but you would note that the late Pope John Paul II did sit down to speak with different religious leaders putting aside their different spiritual beliefs – it remains as a proof that we have different paths to a common destination.

As for Christian teachings; of course it would teach its followers that the way to spend eternity with God would be through Faith in Him & Jesus Christ. Why would Christianity teach its followers that you could go through Allah or Buddha? Why would Islam teach their followers to go through Jesus?

You said previously, "What separates my being a Christian from another religious is not the belief in just certain specifics in the Bible, but on my works that are Christ-like. Christians strive to live a life that is Christ-like - always giving"

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant, or maybe you didn't say what you meant. This is also dangerously close to departing from traditional christian beliefs..

Maybe I didn’t completely mean what I said. What separates my being a Christian from other religious is not JUST the belief in certain specifics in the Bible, but also in my works that are Christ-like.

Not all accounts in the Bible are of events that happened during its time, although it does seem to include some historical documentation. Take the creation story or the story of Adam and Eve for instance. Revelation is another example. None of the authors claim to have been around to witness these events. In addition, it is very difficult for scholars to determine the accuracy of historical Biblical accounts this long after they happened.

I am interested in your further responses in this thread, so please respond if you feel led to do so. But I'm going to be quiet for a while and allow some other folks to chime in.

Again, I stand corrected. The Bible doesn’t only contain accounts of events that happened but also of prophecies of certain events. But generally, it accounts for events that lead to the saving of our souls through Jesus Christ. As for the Adam & Eve story, I look at it as a representation of our creation & the first sin committed by mankind.

[Tom Yum]

Are we no more than an experiment gone horribly wrong?

If you consider that we figured out "fuel based transportation" and applied it to land and air within 60 years...we've got something decent going for us.

[Hardball]

I'm not sure if this was already brought up here. Got the idea from another forum. So let's hear it. You have a religion? How devoted are you to your beliefs?

I'm Roman Catholic. Practicing but not devout.

I learned the "HARD WAY" to keep my religious beliefs to myself; between me and my God. Especially, not to discuss them on the World Wide Web

[bushido-brother]

Here in The Netherlands almost everybody worships EGOISME.

It is not a new God, but he/she is getting bigger and bigger!!!!

[Zell]

This is so much fun!

I like reading all of your replies, I am quite facinated by different belifs...

My self, am a budhist, but I also belive in mystisism, and much of the ocult, after all, space and time is an ilusion, and can be manipulated to whatever purpose or form one would like...

I base my belifs on having seen and felt things that make me understand there is more to life...

what consicvense can telling about your belifs on the net possibly have?

[MatthewAlphonso]

I like reading all of your replies, I am quite facinated by different belifs...

My self, am a budhist, but I also belive in mystisism, and much of the ocult, after all, space and time is an ilusion, and can be manipulated to whatever purpose or form one would like...

We Druids also believe in Reincarnation and the oneness of all things. In fact many of our beliefs are similar to Buddhism and Hindu, the Oneness of all things, reincarnation, belief in spiritual betterment, etc.

what consicvense can telling about your belifs on the net possibly have?

I believe he means that he follows an alternative faith and as such it is easy for us to fall victim to prejudice, villification, and proselytization. Many of us pagans do this, and when we are open we are known as having come out of the broom closet.

[Zell]

ahh...

thou art wise, druid.

I met a vicca this other day, and as we talked, we found we agree in quite much...

I belive in chi, that there is a force in all life, simply the life force, and that if one develops his/her's senses, one can learn to draw infinite energy from this.
in budhism, chi is a energy that goes trugh your body in constant circulation...

I use my skill in distributing my chi, mostly in combat, but once i learned from a chiropractor how anatonomi and muscles work, and cince then, I have devoted myself more to healing arts...

also I belive in the five elements, and that balance betwen them is how to attain mastery of anything...

p.s. I think actualy, that I reached a point of enligthenment this summer, feels kinda wierd...

[BoarSpear]

In fact....Jesus was a Jew...not a christian...
and also reading the "scriptures" one can see that Jesus, by the act of rising from his grave, is a zombie.


Jewish zombie son of God.

Jesus "Zombie" Christ.

man...eat my body and drink my blood....c'mon now, how much more does he need to spell it out for you guys. He's screaming ZOMBIE!

i havent finished this whole thread yet but just in case jesus and his followers (hmmm you know they do kinda act like mindless drones) are zombies...you know me ever the boy scout ...be prepared...here is an essential training manual...

http://www.fvza.org/zdefense.html

[Tom Yum]

i havent finished this whole thread yet but just in case jesus and his followers (hmmm you know they do kinda act like mindless drones) ]

Mindless drone here.....are you gonna eat that pie??

Can you help me solve some Partial Diff-Eq's?

I know, PDE's are neither liberal nor arts.

are zombies...you know me ever the boy scout ...be prepared...here is an essential training manual...

http://www.fvza.org/zdefense.html

Are you really a "boy scout" ?

[BoarSpear]

Mindless drone here.....are you gonna eat that pie??

Can you help me solve some Partial Diff-Eq's?

I know, PDE's are neither liberal nor arts.



Are you really a "boy scout" ?

Oh okay some highly educated jerks who continue to give money to churches so they can pay off the families of the children the leaders of your wonderful religion keep raping.... or maybe you would have preferred i said some very thoughtful people who believe it better to teach abstinence rather than safe sex and condoms....after all its obvious that kids have better control of thier sexual urges than say....priests....


so if you are all so smart...and you see all this going on and continue to participate maybe you arent drones ...
i preferred to think you were brainwashed...maybe youre just sick....
and yes i was a boyscout what of it?...

[jubaji]

usotsuki

My self, am a budhist, but I also belive in mystisism, and much of the ocult, :

But you don't believe in spelling?



Hmmm can't spell the religion he claims to belong to. I call B.S.

[jubaji]

Funny stuff!

We Druids .

.........LOL!