The Ones who write the RULES

[BoarSpear]

Exactly xf. In a recent poll 67% of americans believed that the separation of church and state was in the constitution! now thats a pretty good percentage of the people to have been duped. We as americans tend to believe what we are told...you know by our school teachers or religious leaders and to a lesser extent our politicians. Seems to me the "magic bullet" was the turning point in this country. Once they saw that load of Crap fly...they havent respected our intelligence since.

[Garland]

It isn't in the constitution, sure, but seperation of church and state is an ideal form of freedom of religion, which is indeed in the Bill of rights.

As for "intelligent design"...other than judeo-christian dogma, and blind faith, it has absolutely no foundation...whereas evolution is a highly provisionally accepted conclusion, and has enough supporting evidence to stand on its own.

I'm not trying to provoke anyone...but intelligent design, and creationism, in my PERSONAL opinion, are complete and utter hogwash...and anybody who buys into it should try and take a non-biased look at it...leave religion at the door at school, fo real.
(I went to a catholic school, and the PRIESTS teaching evolution told us that anyone buying into creationism were complete morons.)

"in God we Trust" is damn right, too...but for other reasons. Money only works on faith. It isn't the old monetarist zero sum game anymore...we no longer base our currency on anything tangible.
As for prayer in school, or the pledge...I never participated...and I told my instructor why, in private...and they respected my choice...even in a PRIVATE school, where they could just have easily told me to pray the rosary in contrition for NOT doing what I was told.

[eXcessiveForce]

I have no desire to rehash the evolution vs. creation thread of the past.
Evolution is full of holes. 3rd law of thermodynamics, law of biogenesis, among others. It is a theory, it has not been proven. Never have we observed something change from one species to another. A cat has never become a dog. There is no evidence for this. that is all I will say about that subject.

Intelligent design by it's very nature works. An all powerful force creates the universe as it sees fit. that is damn hard to argue as everything works. The problem is proving it or disproving it.

as for the establishment clause,
if you look closely there is no freedom of religion in the bill of rights. It only says that the state can't create a religion or create laws in favor of a particular religon.

[Garland]

I had a feeling you'd say that.
Proven.
Nothing can ever be proven, only provisionally accepted.
Gravity is not "proven" it is a provisionally accepted law. Everyone know's it's there, but the exact working and exact measurements are not perfect...and as scientific tools become better, they can further refine the definition.
Science is flexible and ever changing.

What evidence is there to suggest intelligent design???

[BoarSpear]

I had a feeling you'd say that.
Proven.
Nothing can ever be proven, only provisionally accepted.
Gravity is not "proven" it is a provisionally accepted law. Everyone know's it's there, but the exact working and exact measurements are not perfect...and as scientific tools become better, they can further refine the definition.
Science is flexible and ever changing.

What evidence is there to suggest intelligent design???

unfortunately there is this or so i have been told...

Have you ever seen a solid bone? NO can we find any solid bones from history? NO why? because solid bones wouldnt work...seems like mother nature should have muffed that a few times in getting it right if it was all luck n evolution.

PLEASE some one debunk this...it really pisses me off to see smug christians.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

As for Bush's learning disability, this does not effect intelligence.

Pardon? that is intelligence, the ability to learn, the more intelligent, the easier one learns

Bush has show that he lacks knowledge (Africa a country?) and it looks like he lacks the intelligence to inform himself prior to speaking in public
You would expect the speech of a president to be proofread, and you would expect someone to do some research before speaking about something in public

I'm not a politician but I would never give an opinion before informing myself

But hey, here in Europe most politicians are arrogant bastards who call everybody with a different opinion uninformed ( during the vote for the EU "constitution" )
I can see the attraction of a politician not ashamed to show his lack of knowledge

[eXcessiveForce]

difficulty learning and intelligence are independent.

Einstein had a learning disability and yet was intelligent. I forget but there is a huge list of people who are considered highly intelligent and successful who are also known to have learning disabilities.

[jubaji]

This country like it or not was founded on chrisitan ideals. Our law is also based on christian ideals..

But some people who would rather worship...oh, I dunno...THEMSELVES, find that quite threatening.

[Tom Yum]

One thing christians are really good at is setting a good example....
of how to behave like complete jackasses. Lets see "We will spread democracy even if by force" hmmm not a good example of christian behavior or my favorite...Hey you savages... put on shoes, stop worshipping those false gods, worship our loving compassionate god...or we will kill you... yeah we set real good examples

I was never a conquistador, but thanks for the example...
Your example is both funny and hurting at the same time.

There have been times that people have misused Christianity, no doubt. If you focus on all of those, your purposely collecting all the bad fruit.

[Garland]

Even so...democracy, especially in the broader sense that most American's seem to buy, is a little different from the ideal democracy it is in theory. America is a republic, not a democracy, and the only freedom that is truly guaranteed is the right to consume...but only as the market, the government, and the corporate system sees fit.
Everything is regulated.

Christians, if they truly followed Jesus, would be pinko-commies.

[eXcessiveForce]

since communism usually rejects religion that would be hard for christians to live under.

[BoarSpear]

I was never a conquistador, but thanks for the example...
Your example is both funny and hurting at the same time.

There have been times that people have misused Christianity, no doubt. If you focus on all of those, your purposely collecting all the bad fruit.

it wasnt just the conquistadors who who killed non-christians. so... when you say there have been times where christianity was misused...you mean like the last several hundred years or just the last couple decades?
i guess you mean not today that was all in the past...today we have fine christians like Bill O'righty, Rush and Rev Falwell or the 700 club doing all the good and oh yeah the Jim and Tammy Fae Faker... they"ve done quite a bit of good... or were you talking about all the great things the Catholic church has been up to with thier "Leave no child's behind" program?

Oh wait maybe those arent great examples...Hey at least you still have George Bush

Seems like its the roots of the tree that are producing bad fruit...if you dont want flies get rid of the bad fruit...Maybe its time to cut down that tree...or at minimum prune it.

[Garland]

Most of those religious right activists are soooooo screwed up.
I do feel bad for Tammy Faye though. Did you catch the surreal life with her and Ron Jeremy???
She actually seemed like a pretty damn decent individual.
She isn't a homophobe either, which is suprising, and seemed like a truly sensitive and caring, thoughtful person.

[Sensei Saki]

That is something I haven't heard of. But not all of them?Oh. What is that feeling like? Don't put yourself down.I understood
the surreal life with her and Ron Jeremy
very well.Oh I get it. actually seemed like a pretty damn decent individual.not a homophobe either which is suprising and seemed like a truly sensitive and caring thoughtful person is not a homophobe either which is suprising and seemed like a truly sensitive and caring thoughtful person ?

[Garland]

Saki...You need to lay off that glue, aight...you and me and everyone here know it ain't doin you a DAMN bit o good.