prison sex

[DickHardman]

this a graphic interview with an inmate about what he does to people in prison. the language is rough, but i think its worth seeing for yourself. if anything, mabye it will deter people from ending up in jail, as listening to this man speak about what goes down in the joint will make you think twice about committing a crime. jail aint no joke. whats worse is these people are supposed to be recieving rehabilitation and help to better themselves, and isntead they are turned into monsters. listen to what this guy has to say, and then ask yourself if youthink this guy or any of his victims are going to be able to lead a normal, productive life once they are released back into society.

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=001e8445ef

heres the infamous tossed salad man that chris rock talked about in one of his comedy routines. ive seen the entire documentary that this clip is from, and what we hear in the clip is only the tip of the ice burg.

warning: this clip contains very explicit language

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=077UtUWGQOA&mode=related&search=

[DickHardman]

Not really sure what your motive was for this thread, man. Makes me wonder what kind of searches you were doing to find all these things...

the prison community(along with deviant behavior) was one of my areas of study while i was in school. these two gentlemen we see in these clips most likely didnt go into prison like that. thats what the prison turned them into. some may say that these guys deserve what they get, but inmop these people should be getting counseling, education, and job skills so mabye when they serve their time they can one day start over new. they may be criminals, but they are still human beings and deserve a chance to turn their lives around. there is a reason why most inmates who get release from prison end up back in there. they are not being rehabilitated properly.

[DickHardman]

heres an interesting article

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20061201/ap_on_re_us/prison_faith

a Christian group has tried to introduce what sounds like a pretty good program for inmates to involve themselves in, but people are trying to get rid of it by stating that it violates separation of state and church by spending gov funds on the program.

if inmates had more productive activities to partake in they would spend less time resorting to the activities mentioned by tossed salad man and the lonely inmate who turns his cell mates into his wives, or developing drug habits they most likely would not have gotten into if they were outside prison.

[DickHardman]

Out of curiosity, why does it fall to the law abiding tax payers to spend $40,000 or more a year on rehabilitation for people who've killed their loved ones, stolen what didn't belong to them, and raped their daughters? Why do so many people feel that prison needs to be like some country club?

well, prisons don't need to be a country club or resort, but don't you think that even criminals deserve a chance to get better? or are you completely fine with letting them rot in prison without any chance of bettering themselves?

[Tom Yum]

well, prisons don't need to be a country club or resort, but don't you think that even criminals deserve a chance to get better? or are you completely fine with letting them rot in prison without any chance of bettering themselves?

The minute they decided to murder or steal, they forfitted most of their rights.

People can't change people, Hardman. Only God and circumstances can change people.

[Tom Yum]

But much like parents in this country have stopped using real disciplinary tactics on their own children, prisons have opted for the "time out" version of punishment. It shows. Criminals aren't deterred in the slightest.

Don't mean to divert the topic, but I've heard that spanking is considered abuse this day and age. He who spares the rod spoils the child. I don't think kids need raw beatins' but they sure need something to keep them in line.

[DickHardman]

I think prison should be, first and foremost, what it was intended to be - a person's punishment for committing a crime. Going to jail is supposed to be how someone "repays their debt to society" for the offenses committed against that society and its populace. I think that it should suck, and it should suck so horribly that it would be a real deterrent to criminals.

you also have to keep in mind that the justice system is not perfect. for example, not all people in prison are murderers and rapists, and not all of them should have to hang out with tossed salad man. people go to prison for all kinds of things. and as bad as having to get raped everyday is, it doesnt work as a deterrent because a human being who gets sexually assaulted everyday for years on end is going to have irreparable emotional trauma. of course they arent going to be able to function correctly when they finally get out on parole, or their sentences are up. thats why the rate of inmates getting arrested after their release is very high. only causes more crime.

As it stands, many of the poor or impoverished who commit crimes are actually taking a step up by going to jail. Free cable, free classes, free meals? Where's the deterrent?

didnt you watch the clips? having to toss other mens salads and getting sexually assaulted every single day isn't a step up bro. its quite a step backwards inmop. and then when these guys get out on parole in 10 years and are released back into society they are going to commit more crimes. so it actually costs the taxpayers even more, and causes more crime in the long run.

I support rehabilitation programs, but I believe that if a person goes to jail, the first full half of his sentence ought to be a horrific experience. Just godawful. Then, they can be offered rehabilitation during the last few years, and their efforts can determine whether or not they can continue with rehab or go back to the hell-hole they experienced during the first half.

i think rehab should be offered to some inmates, not all. some people are beyond help, but some are not. the problem is, that if we let all inmates experience tossed salad man, it has the potential to turn well behaved inmates with the potential to change their lives around, who have commited lower level crimes, into monsters who get into things like sexually abusing others or becoming victims themselves. some people in society deserve to have to hang out with tossed salad man, but not all. for example we read a story about an 18 year old inmate who got sent to prison for a drug possession charge. because he was so young and weak he got raped by overm 30 different inmates, contracted hiv, and commited suicide as a result. surely that 18 year old kid deserved a chance to one day become a respectable man, but it wasnt the case.

But much like parents in this country have stopped using real disciplinary tactics on their own children, prisons have opted for the "time out" version of punishment.

no offense, but i disagree. having to suck on another mans asshole, or be another mans wife is not a "time out" version of punishment inmop. being forced to act as your cell mates wife, and wash his clothes, and sexually service him in return for not getting stabbed to death is as bad it gets mike. i don't think prison is the resort you think it is.

[DickHardman]

DH,
I don't think all that many guys get raped in prison. I think there are some, sure, but I think others just end up falling in with whatever gang will protect them. Now you've got even more gangs and alliances supporting criminal activity on the outside. And personally, I think the ass-rape aspect of jail should be better publicized. It's one of the few aspects I agree with. Now if only we could create a few more deterrent factors like that and make it all very public, we'd be off to the kind of prison experience I'm looking for.

See, I don't think it matters that not everyone in jail is a murderer or rapist. White collar criminals in minimum security prisons probably don't have to deal with Bubba the Backdoor Bandit nearly as much as the long-term guys do anyway. But it sends a clear message, doesn't it? Break the law - even with petty, white collar crimes - and Bubba is going to do you in the butt. So quit thinking about robbing people, embezzling money, or raping the cute college co-ed down the block and get a real job. Otherwise, we'll not only make you Bubba's roomie, we'll issue you a nice pretty thong and give you a full Brazilian wax before sticking you in the cell with him!

well, remember the scared straight documentary they had were they would send troubled kids to listen to lifers talk about their experiences in jail? it was pretty crazy, and evidently it worked as a deterrents because just about all the kids straitened out their lives when they interviewed them again 20 years later.

[Tom Yum]

There may be other ways to discipline a child, but it would take a lot to convince me that there are any better.

I'm not for beating kids, either, but I think that until they hit puberty, their brains are directly connected to their asses. A switch or swat across the ass may be the most direct route to their brains. I know that it kept me in line, and kept me from doing some really stupid stuff later on in life..

I totally agree, Mike.

I grew up in the same generation as you with conservative parents, so I am intimately familiar with the switch. The biggest lesson about getting spanked was that there are consequences for one's actions.

Some of my classmates never got spared the rod and although were decent kids, didn't seeem to understand this lesson early enough.

[DickHardman]

Inmate Rape Goes Beyond Prison Walls

By Dan Harris
ABC News Staff Writer

When inmates who have been sexually violated repeatedly are finally freed from their incarceration, they will be "time bombs," and they will one day "explode," he says. And that's exactly what happened to Robtoy.

Prisoner rights activists say more than 90 percent of inmates return to the community within a year, so prisons are, in effect, churning out people who may be more violent than when they went in.

"It's really clear that the most effective way to turn a nonviolent person into a violent one is to send them to prison," says Harvard University criminologist James Gilligan.

Robtoy says his story begins with a sexual assault at a youth facility in California.

"I was beaten and then subsequently raped," says Robtoy. "There [were] five that came in my cell and I was physically raped by three, repeatedly."

Robtoy describes the experience as "humiliating, degrading," and "something that's not supposed to happen."

And that violence on the inside, he says, led to violence on the outside.

'Regaining' One's 'Manhood'

When Robtoy got out of the juvenile facility, he went on to what he describes as a "homophobic crime spree," beating and robbing gay men in an attempt, he says, to regain his manhood. It culminated in murder.

He strangled David King, a gay man, and is now serving a life sentence in Washington state. Robtoy says prison rape can turn victims into victimizers.

Gilligan agrees completely. He says inmate rape — which is about power, not sex — has helped turn America's prisons into "monster factories."

"Rape is a crime of violence," says Gilligan. "It's a way of exerting dominance over another person and humiliating them totally. And nothing stimulates violence as much as feeling humiliated.

"The man who's been raped feels his manhood has been taken away from him. The only way to restore their sense of being an effective, dominant person — rather than the dominated — is by means of violence against other people."

Threat of AIDS

Prison rape is not only a public safety issue, but a public health issue.

Former inmate Kendell Spruce is now being treated for HIV, with which he says he was infected after being raped in an Arkansas prison. Spruce is suing the warden for failing to protect him from a known predator who had AIDS.

"They deliberately put me in a cell with him, knowing that he was a rapist in prison, knowing that he preyed on young guys," says Spruce, "because I was little and skinny. I looked like I was 16." The warden denies the allegations.

Spruce, who had been convicted of a misdemeanor, says he left prison a doomed man. "I got a death sentence," he says.

The vast majority of the people incarcerated in this country will be released. And, with the incidence of rape as high as it is, their problems will eventually spread beyond prison walls.

"If the public is interested in reducing the amount of violent crime in our society, if the public is interested in its own safety, then it's going to care about this issue," says Gilligan. "It only endangers us all."

"A lot of people think if you commit a crime, you're in prison," says Robtoy. "Let the chips fall where they may, rape that person every day. But yet if that person is in prison and if he is being assaulted, when he gets out, what is he going to do?"

http://www.newbusinessnews.com/story/04180101.html

[DickHardman]

"I've been sentenced for a D.U.I. offense. My 3rd one. When I first came to prison, I had no idea what to expect. Certainly none of this. I'm a tall white male, who unfortunately has a small amount of feminine characteristics. And very shy. These characteristics have got me raped so many times I have no more feelings physically. I have been raped by up to 5 black men and two white men at a time. I've had knifes at my head and throat. I had fought and been beat so hard that I didn't ever think I'd see straight again. One time when I refused to enter a cell, I was brutally attacked by staff and taken to segragation though I had only wanted to prevent the same and worse by not locking up with my cell mate. There is no supervision after lockdown. I was given a conduct report. I explained to the hearing officer what the issue was. He told me that off the record, He suggests I find a man I would/could willingly have sex with to prevent these things from happening. I've requested protective custody only to be denied. It is not available here. He also said there was no where to run to, and it would be best for me to accept things . . . . I probably have AIDS now. I have great difficulty raising food to my mouth from shaking after nightmares or thinking to hard on all this. . . . I've laid down without physical fight to be sodomized. To prevent so much damage in struggles, ripping and tearing. Though in not fighting, it caused my heart and spirit to be raped as well. Something I don't know if I'll ever forgive myself for."
— A.H., Indiana, 8/30/96



"Upon my arrival to prison, my being small, white, some what feminine and niave to the Big City and prison ways, made me appear as an easy mark as a victim. A victim for extortion, robbery and/or sexual assault. I survived the attacks only because I fought several times. The fighting led the preditors to believe that I wasn't an easy mark and there was easier prey to attack.
I wish my tale ended there but it doesn't. After witnessing bigger stronger guys who had also fought back, be brutally attacked by more than one inmate and sexually assaulted, I was over-come with fear. The constant fear of being jumped by three or four guys and brutally beaten until I willingly let them sexually assault me, or was forced to endure a sexual assault, was too much for me. Wondering if I was next dominated my waking hours. I began to think of ways to escape the preditors. I chose to manipulate the psychiatric department into transferring me to a prison psychiatric hospital.
I thought that I had escaped the threat of rape, but I was wrong. Another patient there in the same dorm as me said he liked me and wanted to have sex with me. It was everywhere and escape seemed utterly hopeless. I was tired of living in fear and gave in to his demands. I let him use me and my body as if I were a real woman for his personal sexual gratification. Both oral and anal sex repeatedly for hours.
I was returned to the same prison I had fled from. Within 30 days I escaped from prison, the fear of being humiliated and treated as a sexual slave was too much and greater than the fear of being shot or prosecuted. . . . . My lawyer said that I had the best duress defense he'd ever seen.
After beating the DOC's attempt to prosecute me for escape, they enacted their vengeance. Having just turned 19 years old, they transfered me to Jackson prison. "The World's Largest Walled Prison" known for its stabbings and sexual attacks on young white males. The memory I have of my arrival is yells, mating calls and whistling at me as I walked to my cell at 2:30 am.
When in one 24 hr. period I received over a hundred notes asking who was my man, or threatening me, and more verbal threats, I attempted suicide by cutting my wrist; the only escape I could envision. When that failed the next man to approach me found me hopeless and depressed and I simply no longer cared about what happened to me. He claimed me as his property and I didnt dispute it. I became obedient, telling myself at least I was surviving. . . . He publicly humiliated and degraded me, making sure all the inmates and gaurds knew that I was a queen and his property. Within a week he was pimping me out to other inmates at $3.00 a man. This state of existence continued for two months until he sold me for $25.00 to another black male who purchased me to be his wife. It was another thirty days before an attorney was able to force the DOC to transfer me to another prison.
Word quickly spread of my activities at Jackson. That was the setting for the rest of my five yr. sentence. Though I was lucky, the rest was spent with only two men, and not hundreds of men."
— E.S., Mississippi, 10/4/96

http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/prison/voices.html

bad times.....bad times indeed....

[g-bells]

i believe that when you commit crimes such as murder, the death penality should be inforced period no 4-5 appeals death. as for rapist,child molesters and other seriou crimes they get what they deserve. when you take the right away from another human being your rights should be taken from you. thats the problem with our society today there is no serious reprecusion for ones actions. penalties need to be hard enough to deter people from committing crimes. my father believed in instilling the fear of god in my brothers and i and we all turned out alright.i do believe people make mistakes and they should not be lumped into categories with hard criminals. the penality should fit the crime.my uncle drove taxi cab for years and evey so often he woul see this young man walking home so he stopped one day and asked the boy were he was going, my uncle sais thats on my way so i'll give you a ride for free. this happened for awhile then one night my mother got a phone call that her brother was shot in the back of the head while driving a fee. turns out to have been the same boy that he was giving the free rides to. at the sentencing his family claims he was a good church going boy but he rap she was a long as his arm and after all that my uncle had 15 dollars on him. killing a man for 15 dollars. that boy was given 26yrs for the murder he was 16 at the time so he will be 42 when he is up for parole. don't you think if he was punished properly for his other crimes maybe my uncle would still be alive today

[Blue Wave Gym]

This whole topic disquest me to

if your a rapist, murder, molseter etc. god is going to get you whether you're in prison or not trust me he settles accounts with people whether in this life or the next, there is still the problem of innocent peope being sent to prision getting raped and getting aids not to mention drug cases or burglers or car theives these people deserve to get punished i.e. breaking rocks in the hot sun but nobody deserves to get raped. The death penalty for murders, rapists and molesters though no smypathy for evil.

[DickHardman]

This is just my opinion, but I believe we could solve at least some of our prison overcrowding problem by making things more, not less, severe. We need to carry out death sentences within a year. I can honestly say I see no reason why a single appeal within a one-year window shouldn't be enough. After that, if the verdict holds, you get to die, buddy. As for solving the prison problem and making it an effective punishment, here's President Brewer's idea for how to run the show.

As for general population, I don't think they should be allowed to mingle with each other. I don't believe they should be able to talk to anyone except guards. I don't think they should be allowed visitors. No TV. One book, not a library. No exercise equipment. Literally nothing. No privelages. Not even solid soap. They should get a cell with a faucet at head level and a liquid soap dispenser, a concrete bed with a thin pad on it, and a nice pink jumpsuit. I think that if we bring in the convicts and show them a life without any luxuries or freedoms, then each dose of real freedom becomes something special and worth working for. You give them a month of this bare-bones treatment, without phone calls (except to lawyers), without interaction, and without any luxuries whatsoever. Then you assess their behavior. Are they willing to cooperate with you and provide information on any gangs they may have been a part of? Will they tell you what's going on in the main prison? If so, then you give them some luxuries. An hour of outdoor time, still isolated from the general populace of the prison, and a cell with a roomate. Still no major extras, though. If they agree to be very cooperative, allow them a visitor for fifteen minutes. Allow them to send and receive letters. Keep them on lockdown 23 hours a day, and limit their interaction to their single roomate. Another month.

With good behavior and increased cooperation (status quo is not enough), they get some more luxuries. Among them might be better food, more choices of books, or an extra visitor. But things are still very, very hard. The prisoner hasn't had a chance to work out, and he hasn't had a chance to exercise any gang ties he had before coming in. What's more, anyone in the general population knows that to get to GP, you have to have been cooperative for a solid three months, so everyone in there is a snitch. After the third month, start thinking about adding them to general population.

As soon as General Population living has been granted, require them to work a job for ten hours daily, five days a week. This job should be monstrously tough, and should completely wear the prisoner out by the end of the day. I also think it would be of value to have the work be related to those efforts that people keep talking about needing illegal immigrants to do. And it should pay about $5 a day, which is money that the prisoner can't access. The money goes to social projects and border fences. Shower faucets are still inside the cells, so there's plenty of time to get cleaned up, and the shower rape thing is taken care of. Mingling with the other prisoners takes place only at work. Nowhere else, including meals, are prisoners allowed to interact. This keeps up for the remainder of the prisoner's first year in prison. Any infractions, and it's back to square one. Any discipline problems, back to square one. Any violence, or if a guard finds a weapon, and it's square one for three months. Multiple infractions, and the consequences are more stringent and isolated than the treatment they got at square one. If a prisoner makes it through their first full year without discipline problems, then he can be admitted back into a more normal, social prison setting with a yard and social interaction outside work. After the first year with absolutely zero (and I mean zero) incidents, the prisoner can have access to a full library and classes on subjects like American history, ettiquette, and civics. He can talk to a psychiatrist if he likes, and undergo a one-hour session once a week. If the prisoner has an incident or demerit, though, the clock starts over. They can be at 364 days, then get in a fight, and it will take another year before these luxuries are allowed. After the next two year period without incident (same xzero-tolerance policy applies), the prisoner may be approved for an outside work-furlough program, again, doing the kind of work people seem to think we need illegal immigrants for. As a reward for going three years without incident, the prisoner can choose which social service or charity to donate his money to. Again, one mistake, and it's back to square one. Not back to the last step, but all the way back to the very damned beginning.

Now if a prisoner has made it this far, they've gone three solid years without any problems, and they've become progressively more helpful to the law-enforcement personnel around them. They're helping to destroy the gangs and criminal elements that are beyond the prison walls. They've donated approximately $5500 to social programs and charities (each prisoner, mind you, so combine those numbers for all prisoners in the US and think of the budget increase for social programs we'd see). They've worked, and they've studied. They're on their way to actually repaying a debt to the society they committed offenses against. They aren't taking classes in law, but in civics and American culture. In other words, they are learning to fit into society better. They're learning that by observing the rules, they can get ahead. They're learning that luxuries are not to be taken for granted. Perhaps most importantly, they learn that if they allow themselves to lose control or screw up again, it's right back to the beginning.

I'd be willing to bet that if we did something like this, we'd see an increase in rehabilitation levels, we'd see an increase in budgets and revenues for social programs (that's the prevention side of things), and we'd see more productive prisons overall.

wow, this is indeed pretty well thought out plan for reforming prison systems, great job mike. i think these kind of reforms would help our societies way better than letting people just go nuts and indulge in every twisted, evil behavior they can think of.

and i think keeping inmates isolated is a great idea, not just because they wont be able to assault and harrass each other, but they wouldn't be able to learn about more criminal activities from other criminals.

[g-bells]

great post mike and you've got my vote