9/11 a different perspective

[IPON]

First, let me say that I am definitely not a conspiracy theorist, but I certainly don't dismiss logical information even if it’s not popular. I was sent this link and I must say it packed with research regarding the twin towers, pentagon and flight 93. I live and NYC and remember that Tuesday morning it was crazy. I think the worst part (or least said) was the smell. The smell traveled more than 100 blocks and lasted for weeks (every 20 NY blocks is ~1 mile). Anyway, I always had a problem with how the twin towers fell; it did not seem correct considering the damage. Now, in my (potential) ignorance, there were “expert” explanations for why the building collapsed as it did. I was fine with the explanations because they seemed “logical”. After watching this film I am questioning again.

For those interested this is a film about 129 minutes, time well spent IMHO. No conspiracy theories but very good research and the questions come from the research. If you believe the government is not wrong or should not be question or cannot be open minded. This will be a waste of your time. However, if you are open-minded this will certainly be a good discussion topic.

Click films, then loose change 2nd edition. Can see from Google or divix

http://www.loosechange911.com/

[gregimotis]

For those of us who don't want to sit for over two hours, can you summarize?

The government blew up the world trade center with explosives in the basement which is why they didn't topple.
The government also blew up the pentagon with a missle (because the fire was red instead of yellow). The missle hit the offices of the people who planned the World Trade Center in order to cover tracks.
The government hid the jetliners somewhere.
We didn't land on the moon, and there are aliens at area 51.

[DickHardman]

did you guys ever hear about how supposdely some of the 911 highjackers were found to be alive in other countries? i dont know how much truth there is to this, but its been featured in a few articles including a bbc one. what do you guys think?

check out this link

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/1559151.stm

is it just a really bad case of mistaken identity?

[GonzoStyles]

I think there are a lot of possible explanations, easiest to conceive may be that the hijackers who died were misidentified from the start. I don't think there's any conspiracy behind it, though.

I think that there are actual legitimate elements to SOME of the questions posed about 9-11, ie all the purchasing of "put" options on airline stocks just before 9-11, the three israeli agents arrested on suspicion of being terrorists who were seen cheering as the towers burned, etc.

But I heard the two jack-asses who made this movie try to debate it with two writers from popular mechanics and the "Loose change" writers sounded like religious zealots, shouting them down, calling them liars and basically losing the arguements.

Idiots like these guys make any real look into 9-11 harder by spreading this kind of crap around. They went on and on about the "temperature required to melt steel" when in reality all that was needed was some stress on the loadbearing members to make them fail. While the two guys from popular science maintained their cool and made logical points.

I mean I find it hard to believe that we found a passport from one of the highjackers but no black boxes? But when you start talking about covert operations that involve fake planes, planted explosives and a conspiracy that would involve dozens if not hundreds of people, you enter the nutcase zone.

[Garland]

you enter the nutcase zone.

that sounds painful.

[Thai Bri]

You have entered the nut case zone
Beyond this world
Strange things are known

Move the key
Unlock the door
Believe more bullshit
Than you have before....

Enter this world of conspiracy theories
Be like the hippies and asorted wierdies......




OK, acknowledgement to Rush.

[Garland]

oh...so kinda like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0uFbx-EtUFk

[Garland]

put an ear to this!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BRK_iA_ENcc&mode=related&search=

hypnotize you into buying cheeseburgers and drugs...just like the liberal media!

[BoarSpear]

But when you start talking about covert operations that involve fake planes, planted explosives and a conspiracy that would involve dozens if not hundreds of people, you enter the nutcase zone.

Yeah, America wouldn't ever consider this behavior...

Operation Northwoods anyone?

U.S. Military Wanted to Provoke War With Cuba
Book: U.S. Military Drafted Plans to Terrorize U.S. Cities to Provoke War With Cuba

By David Ruppe

N E W Y O R K, May 1, 2001

"In the early 1960s, America's top military leaders reportedly drafted plans to kill innocent people and commit acts of terrorism in U.S. cities to create public support for a war against Cuba.

Code named Operation Northwoods, the plans reportedly included the possible assassination of Cuban émigrés, sinking boats of Cuban refugees on the high seas, hijacking planes, blowing up a U.S. ship, and even orchestrating violent terrorism in U.S. cities.

The plans were developed as ways to trick the American public and the international community into supporting a war to oust Cuba's then new leader, communist Fidel Castro.

America's top military brass even contemplated causing U.S. military casualties, writing: "We could blow up a U.S. ship in Guantanamo Bay and blame Cuba," and, "casualty lists in U.S. newspapers would cause a helpful wave of national indignation."

Details of the plans are described in Body of Secrets (Doubleday), a new book by investigative reporter James Bamford about the history of America's largest spy agency, the National Security Agency. However, the plans were not connected to the agency, he notes.

The plans had the written approval of all of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and were presented to President Kennedy's defense secretary, Robert McNamara, in March 1962. But they apparently were rejected by the civilian leadership and have gone undisclosed for nearly 40 years.

"These were Joint Chiefs of Staff documents. The reason these were held secret for so long is the Joint Chiefs never wanted to give these up because they were so embarrassing," Bamford told ABCNEWS.com.

"The whole point of a democracy is to have leaders responding to the public will, and here this is the complete reverse, the military trying to trick the American people into a war that they want but that nobody else wants."

Gunning for War

The documents show "the Joint Chiefs of Staff drew up and approved plans for what may be the most corrupt plan ever created by the U.S. government," writes Bamford."

...............................................................

Looks to me like the people who laugh at us for questioning the possibility this could happen are the ones ignorant of History and facts about how the those in charge think.

[gregimotis]

Yeah, America wouldn't ever consider this

To me, it isn't so much that somebody wouldn't, but that they couldn't. By which I mean they couldn't have staged 9/11 and cover it up.

Too many people would have to be involved in the plot - you could assasinate a few, and some would keep thier mouths shut, but we talking dozens of people with all kinds of backgrounds. Somebody would leak - and once one person did, it would get legs fast because...

Too many people with resources are looking at it. Not just the media, but also the Dems, the bloggers, the whole internet and all the Boarspears on it.

There would be a paper trail. You couldn't organize something that big without e-mail or something. Moreover, once somebody came up with a convincing story, people who didn't know the whole story but had a role in it would see the connections and they would start talking, too. Once somebody started talking, bits and pieces would fall together. As soon as it became dangerous for the conspiritors, some of them would get lawyers and try to save themselves by talking.

The government just isn't capable of pulling it off with so many people watching. Maybe fifty or a hundred years ago when the media was slow and centralized; nowadays, a person could blow the whole plot on a blog complete with pictures, e-mails, and blueprints and not even give up his identity.

Heck, hardly a dozen people were in on the watergate break in and that was before the internet, before motion sensors and ubiquitous security cameras.

So that's the thing with me and conspiracy - There are plenty of people who would be willing to do all sorts of things; most won't because they either can't, or because they can't get away with it.

[BoarSpear]

To me, it isn't so much that somebody wouldn't, but that they couldn't. By which I mean they couldn't have staged 9/11 and cover it up.

Too many people would have to be involved in the plot - you could assasinate a few, and some would keep thier mouths shut, but we talking dozens of people with all kinds of backgrounds. Somebody would leak - and once one person did, it would get legs fast because...

Too many people with resources are looking at it. Not just the media, but also the Dems, the bloggers, the whole internet and all the Boarspears on it.

There would be a paper trail. You couldn't organize something that big without e-mail or something. Moreover, once somebody came up with a convincing story, people who didn't know the whole story but had a role in it would see the connections and they would start talking, too. Once somebody started talking, bits and pieces would fall together. As soon as it became dangerous for the conspiritors, some of them would get lawyers and try to save themselves by talking.

The government just isn't capable of pulling it off with so many people watching. Maybe fifty or a hundred years ago when the media was slow and centralized; nowadays, a person could blow the whole plot on a blog complete with pictures, e-mails, and blueprints and not even give up his identity.

Heck, hardly a dozen people were in on the watergate break in and that was before the internet, before motion sensors and ubiquitous security cameras.

So that's the thing with me and conspiracy - There are plenty of people who would be willing to do all sorts of things; most won't because they either can't, or because they can't get away with it.

Big things don't get covered up in America huh?

MAJOR Medical experiments and sterilization of unaware and unwilling American citizens, torture of American citizens, etc have never been covered up for 50 years or longer for NAT'L Security?

That's some serious Bullshit right there

Ever seen the list of people who died BEFORE giving testimony in the Kennedy assasination?

Remember the first bombing of the world trade center? Remember how the trial was closed after the defendants identified American C.I.A. agents as their HANDLERS and contacts who SUPPLIED the money and intel for the bombing?...that's called a False flag operation we are hardly new to the concept or use of them.

[Garland]

MAJOR Medical experiments and sterilization of unaware and unwilling American citizens, torture of American citizens, etc have never been covered up for 50 years or longer for NAT'L Security?

It's true. This is how they used to treat patients in sanitariums in the U.S.

[BoarSpear]

It's true. This is how they used to treat patients in sanitariums in the U.S.

They also kidnapped Americans off the streets to give them drugs and locked them in rooms for observation...Sterilized Blacks without their knowledge or consent.... and Tortured AMERICAN prisoners in regular US prisons and still cover this up, the court case is headed for the Supreme CT now I believe.

[DickHardman]

Big things don't get covered up in America huh?

MAJOR Medical experiments and sterilization of unaware and unwilling American citizens, torture of American citizens, etc have never been covered up for 50 years or longer for NAT'L Security?

That's some serious Bullshit right there

Ever seen the list of people who died BEFORE giving testimony in the Kennedy assasination?

Remember the first bombing of the world trade center? Remember how the trial was closed after the defendants identified American C.I.A. agents as their HANDLERS and contacts who SUPPLIED the money and intel for the bombing?...that's called a False flag operation we are hardly new to the concept or use of them.

have you seen my ufo thread yet?

http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/showthread.php?t=21869

[BoarSpear]

have you seen my ufo thread yet?
http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...ad.php?t=21869

Why is it that anyone who questions things that have HUGE flaws in them like the Kennedy fiasco gets grouped in with the UFO people?

I didn't see little green men or aliens...I researched the available resources and came up with questions the reports couldn't answer...our own government QUIETLY has released studies saying Oswald didnt act alone...but they don't wanna discuss it...See Todays news for how the FBI kept the John Lennon files sealed for NATL security...What a load of crap...