9/11 a different perspective

[BoarSpear]

The insult is the raising of theories that are so out there that it takes the focus away from the reality.Asking tough questions is one thing,but asking stupid questions is the insult.There is also conspiracy theories about the Bali bombings saying it was by the U.S.Do you believe that as well?What about the London bombings,the ones in Spain?All organised by each countries internal security agencies or by the zionist movement(that some extreme muslimist groups actually say).
And Boarspear you utter f@#king tool.Do something useful and shut up.

Uh huh they are called False flag operations JR. Israel and the USA specialize in them...Nice way to insult people with personal attacks there tough guy...careful you dont get a PENALTY CARD.

It's clear you're a little slow on this stuff so here's a couple REAL false flag operations to look up to get you started.

The King David Hotel bombings were carried out by the Israeli's but blamed on ...guess who?

The Gulf of Tonkin was a false flag operation By the USA used to give us an excuse to go to war in Vietnam....Gee SKIPPY real WARS are fought and nations ESTABLISHED on the back of False Flag ops...they're a little more real than people would like you to think.

[HERQ454]

Discussion was about 9/11.Not the Iraq war.
Thanks for neg rep.Didnt know you were that way inclined.

[DickHardman]

i think you guys should be thankful that there are people who are concerned enough about our country and troops to want to ask questions and want to know the truth. most people i know dont even want to talk about iraq or our countries problems, they would rather lose themselves to their hunger for brand names and trivial material objects. none of my coworkers at work ever talk about anything other than ps3, wii, or going clubbing.

[Neltharius]

Nothing wrong with that. In this day and age politics are what most easily divide an otherwise cohesive group. People don't have to always ponder "the big picture" and "the truth". Sometimes life is just meant to be lived, even in the workplace.

[Neltharius]

Not exactly. Only occasional avoidance. My main point was actually that many ties politics can take a back seat to many things, including video games. I'll get into that later.

Having been extremely politically involved in the past, I always come out of a series of debates very hostile, aggressive, and defensive, but emotionally drained, despite the fact that those heated debates were perfectly rational. Not to mention, every time I brought up politics, people would stop talking to me. That's when I realized that f I centered my life around politics, the large majority of my friends would no longer be on speaking terms with me. They are good people, but when passions are sparked, and they become in conflict, intense destructive debate is sure to follow. That, and the fact that when you bring up politics when people just want to have talk, they get very annoyed. Unfortunately I can do nothing to change that. I also realize that the discussions I have with my friends have little to no influence on what goes on nationally unless it's election year. We are just political enthusiasts. We do not really know the realities of the bureaucracies that exist, or how society looks like from the broader lens. In that sense, accomplishing something in a debate is about as hard as trying to explain to a goldfish that it swims in circles around a fish bowl.

The context that you presented is very different from national politics. A team is much smaller, more intimate, and manageable than a country. In small group settings where we want to get something done and we know we can do so, I encourage, facilitate, and even provoke heated discussion. That's my responsibility as a leader of the group. That's just the small scale though. As I mentioned before, not too much will get done if my friends and I talk about national politics all the time, so we might as well do some things that bring out positive emotions rather than negative ones.

[IPON]

I'm sorry but discussing 9/11 and saying it was anything other than a terrorist act by Al-Qaeda is an insult to the memories of the victims and the families who still have to live with the pain that day created.

Well you ar entitled to your opinion as well as I. I DID loose two friends in WT so don't tell me about insulting the memories of the victims. The insult is to not reveal the truth whatever the truth is. I started this thread (and prefaced I maight add) that it was not about conspiracy theories. There were some interesting points that were raised in teh film that I thought would be interesting for discussion. If you are not interested that is fine.

[IPON]

OK Now I know why its called Defend net

HERQ,
Dude, I totally agree with you that there needs to be some respect for the victims of the 9/11 attacks. I've never seen so many people eager to drag victims of an attack through the mud to propegate conspiracy theories. After the bombing of the Marine barracks in Beirut (and still to this day) the victims - even though they were military fighting men in a war zone - were honored and mourned by all except our enemies. But after 9/11, while most of us mourned and honored them and their families, there were those who said they "deserved what they got" and compared them to "little Nazis" from their University podiums.

I am all for free speech, but I just wish it still came with a dose of respect. I believe in asking the tough questions and investigating things objectively, but I believe there's a balance in there somewhere that many are not even interested in finding. You can search for truth while still honoring those innocents who died, and you don't have to make their families the butt of conspiracies and rhetoric just to drive home political points.

I also would like to extend my sincere appreciation to you for defending them. I find it telling that you are from Australia, and you are the voice of American unity in this thread. May all of the pretenders look at themselves and compare their own attitudes honestly to yours.

Mike, again I prefaced this thread addressing that it was not about “conspiracy theories” nor do I consider myself a conspiracy theorist. However, IF you OBJECTIVELY watched the film instead a 2-3 point cliff note version you would find that regardless if you think the people that made the film are nuts they provided good research. Research that can be refuted, but not with a “guess” (this could have happed because or may have happened because). I didn’t list point because I wanted to people to watch the film, if I listed point people would only respond to the points.

Mike sorry, but you are not objective. To be objective you have to be open to receive information and you are not, you start from a perspective again that you know the answers and barely know what questions are being asked (from the perspective of the file. I actually was looking forward to your comments and others with military background on some of the technical parts just as I have approached others. I was curious what the board members had to say. BUT saying I am stupid and implying that I am un american is not appreciated and also shows your lack of objectivity. And before you rant and say “Show me any post where I specifically said IPON is stupid or that you are un-American” when you make general comments like the one, nuff said:

I find it telling that you are from Australia, and you are the voice of American unity in this thread.

So basically we are American if we agree with your opinions, well I am sorry I don’t see the objectivity. Some of your points are acknowledged in the film. Why you assume that I immediately jumped to “conspiracy theories” OMG because there was something I saw at the twin towers. Mike I questioned it, and still maintain my question. Unlike you I never qualified it I thought it was odd how the build collapsed. I know engineers in different fields that thought it was equally odd. So don’t assume that you know things that you don’t. This is not the first time a jet plane hit one of the buildings in NYC but it is the first time a building collapsed, the merit of that point is worth discussion. Who did what and why is another discussion that is objective discussion. Then there is this explanation:

If it's that implausible, look at your average candle. It burns from the top, and the wax melts straight down. It doesn't sputter out the sides, and it doesn't cause the candle to tip over. It gets hot, and the hot stuff melts downward over the stuff below it - just like the WTC did.

Umm, do I really need to discuss physics and why this is not an appropriate analogy to WTC? I refuse to believe that your thinking can be this simplistic and flawed.


Ockham’s razor is almost a circular theory when you take it out of the context of science. The fact is simply because the most simple explanation is not always the best, but axion in this context is one of the best ways to move away from potential truth (generally speaking).

[IPON]

OK Now I know why its called Defend net

...........

[HERQ454]

What prompted me with the first post on this thread was an image of those passengers on flight 93 deciding to storm the cockpit of that flight,knowing they were going to die,but doing it so other countrymen/women of theirs would not.Irrespective of what nation you belong to,I believe,and I think everyone else does as well,to define what a heroic act is.
Ipon,my comments were not personnally at yourself,and feel sorry for your loss on that day.
A documentary that I had watched about why the twin towers failed descibed how the impact of the aircraft actually blew off the fire resistant material sprayed on to the metal structure of the building.With the intense heat and the weight of the structure above the impact,contributed to the warping of the beams which lead to each building coming down.
Yes I did not watch the documentary so I could be accused of dicussing a topic without being fully aware of the facts.But we saw those planes.we heard those cell phone calls.It was an act of terrorism.

[IPON]

What prompted me with the first post on this thread was an image of those passengers on flight 93 deciding to storm the cockpit of that flight,knowing they were going to die,but doing it so other countrymen/women of theirs would not.Irrespective of what nation you belong to,I believe,and I think everyone else does as well,to define what a heroic act is.
Ipon,my comments were not personnally at yourself,and feel sorry for your loss on that day.
A documentary that I had watched about why the twin towers failed descibed how the impact of the aircraft actually blew off the fire resistant material sprayed on to the metal structure of the building.With the intense heat and the weight of the structure above the impact,contributed to the warping of the beams which lead to each building coming down.
Yes I did not watch the documentary so I could be accused of dicussing a topic without being fully aware of the facts.But we saw those planes.we heard those cell phone calls.It was an act of terrorism.

This is not an easy topic for anyone. And I will agree with Mike that you being in Australia show how far reaching it is. This is the only film I saw regarding 9/11 and there was a lot of detail which I just thought would be good to discuss and refute or expand on. Maybe it was not such a good idea. Anyway, no problems bro, I may have taken your comment out of context.

[jubaji]

Are people still going on about this conspiracy nonsense?

[IPON]

IPON, I'd still like a synopsis of what the movie said. I may be able to research things on my own a lot easier than sitting at the terminal for two straight hours watching a video. Just a thought. Maybe it would help get the discussion on track.

I think you are right that is the best way to get the discussion going. The film was packed with (alleged) factoids so I think the best way is to start in sections (ie pentagon, WTC, flight 93) to refute can't refute or agree with the points made. I'll try get get this soon.

[Uke]

First, let me say that I am definitely not a conspiracy theorist, but I certainly don't dismiss logical information even if it’s not popular. I was sent this link and I must say it packed with research regarding the twin towers, pentagon and flight 93. I live and NYC and remember that Tuesday morning it was crazy. I think the worst part (or least said) was the smell. The smell traveled more than 100 blocks and lasted for weeks (every 20 NY blocks is ~1 mile). Anyway, I always had a problem with how the twin towers fell; it did not seem correct considering the damage. Now, in my (potential) ignorance, there were “expert” explanations for why the building collapsed as it did. I was fine with the explanations because they seemed “logical”. After watching this film I am questioning again.

For those interested this is a film about 129 minutes, time well spent IMHO. No conspiracy theories but very good research and the questions come from the research. If you believe the government is not wrong or should not be question or cannot be open minded. This will be a waste of your time. However, if you are open-minded this will certainly be a good discussion topic.

Click films, then loose change 2nd edition. Can see from Google or divix

http://www.loosechange911.com/

IPON, you were absolutely correct. This documentray of sorts produced more information on 9-11 than any other source. I can see why some were terrified to view it as it would shatter their unrealistic belief that our country is based on altruism.

This was very powerful and very informative. Regardless of the opposing views of those who commented without even watching it to digest the facts, there is something here to be learned by everyone.

You cannot argue with facts. You can argue with opinions, but not with facts.

I had heard many theories and speculations on what might have happened on 9-11, but nothing this comprehensive. Nothing this well researched. This provided actual interviews, video and audio evidence, and conclusions from scientists and demolition experts. Not to mention the fireman who were in the actual towers when it happened. This video actually had their actual transmissions!

I'd like to thank you for posting this. As a fellow New Yorker who was in the city when the crashes happened, many of the facts hit home.

[DickHardman]

IPON, you were absolutely correct. This documentray of sorts produced more information on 9-11 than any other source. I can see why some were terrified to view it as it would shatter their unrealistic belief that our country is based on altruism.

This was very powerful and very informative. Regardless of the opposing views of those who commented without even watching it to digest the facts, there is something here to be learned by everyone.

You cannot argue with facts. You can argue with opinions, but not with facts.

I had heard many theories and speculations on what might have happened on 9-11, but nothing this comprehensive. Nothing this well researched. This provided actual interviews, video and audio evidence, and conclusions from scientists and demolition experts. Not to mention the fireman who were in the actual towers when it happened. This video actually had their actual transmissions!

I'd like to thank you for posting this. As a fellow New Yorker who was in the city when the crashes happened, many of the facts hit home.

9/11 was the official beginning of the NWO. iraq was the first country to fall. who will be next????? are we all going to be living under one global power within the next decade??? our current usa leaders have violated our american constitution and laws repeatedly, using 9/11 and the war in iraq as excuses to do so.

[DickHardman]

oh whats this? henry kissinger talking about the new world order? was this a slip up?

http://video.google.ca/videoplay?docid=5893776210550624236&q=kissinger+new+world+order