Wounded Afghans say U.S. forces fired on civilians after suicide bomb

[BoarSpear]

How does it feel to be a part of the problem?

Damn proud if my pointing out rape and murder makes it tougher on you to cover them up and ignore them ...

[BoarSpear]

How does it feel to be a part of the problem?

...hows it feel to KNOW you support and foster Rape and murder by helping hide it? Guess that makes YOU an enabler to rapist and murders good job Mr Brewer.

[Troll Virus]

Can we not address an issue if we don't at the same time address everything horrible in the world?

Definitely not.

Can we not point out problems if they are not the absolute biggest problem in existence?

I see no harm in that.

The government (notice i'm not saying "Bush", as far as i'm concerned there's no one in government today any better than Bush)

*[Insert deity of choice]* have mercy on us all.

Imagine how happy they would be if they could say "yeah things aren't perfect in Iraq,

Well, that'd be honest, rather than sensationalist reporting?

but more people die a year from slipping on icy pavement" and we all yelled "holy crap! forget about Iraq, i gotta go buy some salt!" We need eyes on every problem, that is the importance of people who feel called to illuminate a certain, specific cause.

Backslapping all round then.
Whatever our bias, we all contribute something?

If you guys are really so concerned over drug abuse

Yes I am.
It's what drives a huge percentage of crime, is a cause of misery to millions, is truly a WOMD and a huge proportion of it comes out of Afghanistan.
Now why is a huge baggy of Pure Afghanistan smack available in my home town for the price you'd have in spare change in your pocket?
You'd think, with a war on, suppliers would find it difficult to traffic would you not?

To Boar;
you know damn fine well, that MB does not support rape or murder, nor has he ever tried to cover up anything.
You really need to STFU and take a couple of weeks away from the board to deal with your issues.
If you take me up on that, I'd welcome you back with open arms and all the other grown ups will do the same.
I place a great deal of value on your contribution to the forum.
I don't pretend to speak for Mike, but it's clear to me that he does too.
Like EF put it a while back;
You're either Negative or Positive and recently you've been totally negative.

Hate all that as much as you will, but it's well intended, with everyone's long term interests at heart.

[BoarSpear]

It what sense does doing what he is told make a soldier "good"? It might make him a good soldier from the point of view of the officers issuing orders because it makes him the ideal pawn, still makes him a poor excuse for an individual if he signs over his judgement entirely to another man.

There are specific regulations in place to remove a soldier or Military officer when his actions or orders are clearly in violation of the USMJ. You are REQUIRED to violate illegal orders!! If you want to debate that, do it with the men who followed orders (and that was their defense at the Nuremberg Trials...) they were hanged along side the High Ranking Nazi's who gave them their orders....follow an evil jerk and do nothing but go along and you're guilty as the leader.... perhaps you're actually worse, since without your support the poor leaders are powerless to enforce their insanity on the world....go along with them, HANG beside them when they finally loose....thats a poor reason to keep trying to find a way to win in my opinion, but it does explain why some people are SO determined no matter what it takes these days.

People who argue different were either poor soldiers or have never served.

Funny thing about this, the Courts were dealing with WAR CRIMES...need I list what those would be?

Now if Mr Bush freakin snapped and let out a good old southern Baptist Fire and brimstone, I'll skin your asses personally speech for the world to see and explained in NO UNCERTAIN TERMS that the USA will NOT FREAKIN TOLERATE our troops essentially helping the enemy by committing war crimes..Offered rewards for proof, well I'd praise the man from the mountain tops.

[BoarSpear]

To Boar;
you know damn fine well, that MB does not support rape or murder, nor has he ever tried to cover up anything.

He attacks me for posting news articles or voicing my opinion. He stated "win the war well clean it up later"...thats condoning it as in "The end, justifies the means" or as he often states whatever it takes to win...STATES and their Military ARE held accountable to certain behavioral standards EVEN IN WAR. It's NEVER okay to allow the WAR CRIMES that have happening REGULARLY to continue, with an attitude well worry about ethics AFTER the war...it'll get your ass hung...its a violation of the UCMJ (Uniform Code of Military Justice.)

[Uke]

To Boar;
you know damn fine well, that MB does not support rape or murder, nor has he ever tried to cover up anything.
You really need to STFU and take a couple of weeks away from the board to deal with your issues.
If you take me up on that, I'd welcome you back with open arms and all the other grown ups will do the same.
I place a great deal of value on your contribution to the forum.
I don't pretend to speak for Mike, but it's clear to me that he does too.
Like EF put it a while back;
You're either Negative or Positive and recently you've been totally negative.

Hate all that as much as you will, but it's well intended, with everyone's long term interests at heart.

This is ridiculous.

Regardless what Boarspear is posting, it is his right to do so. His political views are violating any terms or conditions. Not everyone here at Defend.net sees what he is posting as negative. That is a subjective term used by those who don't agree with or appreciate his perspective, not a label you can slap on his overall contributions here.

Its amazing to me that you'd tell Boarspear to take a break because of his opposition and resistance to propaganda of the American media, but you say nothing to people who are here on this forum pretending that something good has come out of this war by creating examples that illustrate that the USA is not perpetrating the greatest evils in the world ... at the moment.

You and a few of you here are suggesting that we focus on the positive that this war is accomplishing and that the troops have a job to do. Well, you can support the troops without supporting a war that accomplishes nothing positive for the American people. That's a simple concept.

As far as criticizing Boarspear for his lack of "positive reporting", this is exactly the same thing that happened with the Catholic Church. Many people didn't report the molesting because in some minds they were small incidents compared to the "good" that the church did. Molesting has been going on for decades, with some of the higher level clergy having knowledge of it. But for years the argument was that it should not be reported due to the smear that it would bring against the overall organization. How many people got molested over the years because children, parents and clergy were told to focus on the positive?

I wonder when the molested victims decided to come forward and let the rest of the world know what had and is still happening, did the church tell them "You're either Negative or Positive and recently you've been totally negative."

Its pure comedy that anyone here would attempt to censor what articles and views a man likes to post. How un-American is that!

[Troll Virus]

Did you actually read what you quoted?
Did you read any of the preceding posts?
If you did, you don't seem to have understood them.

[Troll Virus]

For the record, I'll make my own position clear.
I agree with neither Mike nor Boar on the issues loosely being discussed at least, not entirely.
There are good points being raised, but everyone is shouting over the top of one another.

Mike makes the point that there should be unity and loyalty, in and for the armed forces, in which he is correct, at least in my opinion.
The forces, via government, execute the will of the people.
They've committed to a war, so the people that voted for it, must support it entirely, as they voted for it.
I understand that people may NOT have voted for it though.

The armed forces are largely made up of young people, estranged from home and often not the best educated/adjusted people in society to start with (after all, who in their right mind would pick up a gun and walk about in Dads Bag?).
So things happen. Homes are looted, innapropriate activities occur.
This is no different to their behaviour at home though.
In fact, many of the armed forces might well have ended up incarcerated had they not signed up.

Show me a war that has ever been any different.
That's why there's a name for it; "Atrocities of War".

As for the posting of 'news' articles.
They're rarely neutral and are often glimpses of things cut together to make you see what THEY want you to see.
Making a point, based on those, is not great reading.

I'm not saying it's right, but it's the way it is.
If that's too difficult to handle, then you vote against any government willing to finance a military force.
Sadly, there's not a place in the world you can reside in that offers this to my knowledge.

[Troll Virus]

Liechtenstein has no military at all. Thus no military spending.


Unfortunately they were invaded by the Swiss a few weeks ago with a force of around 150 men. It was of course by accident. Later the swiss realized they had marched over 1 mile into the very tiny country and they retreated back to Switzerland.

Where is Liechtenstein?
What's the food like?
What's the beer like?
Are their women hot?
Do they like Scotsmen?

P.S. Did they even notice they'd been invaded?

[Troll Virus]

Forgot to ask, do they have beaches?

Hmmm, it's awfully close to Austria.
Good beer, rotten food!

https://www.cia.gov/cia/publications/factbook/geos/ls.html

Can't Ski either.

Didn't the 'Von Trappe' family have something to do with Liechtenstein?

Anywhere else?

Mind you, if the Swiss Toblerone munchers hadn't invented the 'Swiss Army Knife', you'd be forgiven for thinking they didn't have an army

[Troll Virus]

Ah, no, hang on a minute......
Wasn't the hero, in 'A Knights Tale' supposed to be 'Baron Von Liechtenstein'?

[Troll Virus]

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070302/...taken_invasion

How dare they!

Off to Liechtenstein I go, to raise a militia and drill holes in dem swiss cheeses....

[Troll Virus]

of gelderland

Dammit, yup, you're right.
I remember now.

Hmmm, now what MA do they have in Iechtenstein I wonder........

[jubaji]

Out of curiosity, why is it that when you see a story about a tourist breaking a gunman's neck in the MMA forum, you immediately spend time and effort coming up with four or five opposing viewpoints that dispute the original story, but when you find a story about how US troops are allegedly doing something wrong, you can't wait to post it all by itself?

I've counted something like half a dozen "US troops and leaders are bad" threads by you in recent weeks, and not one of them offers up anything close to the kind of "opposing viewpoints" you devoted to the anti-MMA thread.

Hmmmmmm.....

That's because "US troops and leaders are bad" is his agenda. He can't wait to post things like that. He's another great patriot who feels happy when he sees bad news related to America and is actively rooting for us to lose in any and every way possible because he feels it would justify his political bias. Straight out of the John Kerry school of patriotism.

[jubaji]

After a while, people get tired of listening to the most unscrupulous country on the planet righteously preach to the rest of the world about morals and ethics.

Which country would that be?