God hates America?

[Ahsen]

See also, people who think it is in their best interest to blow themselves and their kids up in order to get at their enemies, .

AGreed on the fact that sucide bombing serve no purpose
but lets get in prospective here:
No one in the world blows themselves up “ just for best interest" in order to get at their enemies.
They’ve either been pushed into madness (that’s Madness as you were referring as nutty in your post) or that's the only tactics they have against a foreign army.
Even for them it takes a lot to blow up their own children
- a real horrendous thought.
Obviously they have beens pushed and its the reason of their madness.

No one in their right mind agrees with suicide bombing especially that involves Kids

To get rid of such lunacy of "blowing yourself up and their children" you have to solve the root causes of terrorism, understand the situation, help them out instead of seeing things one sided.

[aseepish]

Ashen, read what I posted more carefully. In no way am I equating Naziism with Palestinian Nationalism. If you prefer, I'll say that majority rule brought both Hitler to power in Germany and Ariel Sharon to power in Israel.

When I say south-east Asia I'm not referring merely to Malaysia and Indonesia (as you seem to have read into my post). I'm referring to everything between China and Australia.

Go to Thailand and speak out against the royal family.
Go to Singapore and speak out against the PAP (you won't be jailed, but you'll probably get sued by the government for libel).
Go to Vietnam or Myanmar and speak out against the ruling party.


Let me reduce my point to a complete abstraction: There is a tension in liberal democratic socities between the following two ideas:

Limiting group/individual X's freedom of expression may in the long run benefit group/individual Y's freedom.

Limiting freedom of expression for ANY group/individual has a deleterious effect on EVERY group/individual.

[I still have no love for Hamas though. Bunch of weenies.]

[Ahsen]

Ashen, read what I posted more carefully. In no way am I equating Naziism with Palestinian Nationalism. If you prefer, I'll say that majority rule brought both Hitler to power in Germany and Ariel Sharon to power in Israel.

When I say south-east Asia I'm not referring merely to Malaysia and Indonesia (as you seem to have read into my post). I'm referring to everything between China and Australia.

Go to Thailand and speak out against the royal family.
Go to Singapore and speak out against the PAP (you won't be jailed, but you'll probably get sued by the government for libel).
Go to Vietnam or Myanmar and speak out against the ruling party.


Let me reduce my point to a complete abstraction: There is a tension in liberal democratic socities between the following two ideas:

Limiting group/individual X's freedom of expression may in the long run benefit group/individual Y's freedom.

Limiting freedom of expression for ANY group/individual has a deleterious effect on EVERY group/individual.

[I still have no love for Hamas though. Bunch of weenies.]

I see your point sorry

[Ahsen]

Many if not most of the people being blown up by these suicide bombers today are not "a foreign army" but fellow citizens! Sugar coat it any way you like, but it is lunacy, plain and simple (if not outright group psychoses).

Sugar coating is not whats been done in my post Mike its more like you are avoiding the real issue. Just simply making random suggestion that suicide bombings happen out of the blue is looney, go and check it up what are the root causes of terrorism and yes if you read my post carefully and previous post I have included fellow citizens !

Besides they are gonna kill civilians anyway (Iraq) so why give them the opportunity by going into someones country opposing our ideas
ALso do you know the whole story in Iraq ?
instead of relying on rubbish news
half of it doesn't make sense.

What about those who up against a modern Army(Israel)
What is your suggestion for those people, have them do nothing whilst their family being murdered and their homes being destroyed by their enemies which in turn pushes them into the brink of madness or psychoses as the term you use.(See the film Punisher, Crow- see what happens when you kill someones family -madness)
Still if you are so out spoken about these things why not stop
the perpetrators who started it in the first place instead of just
being onesided. That way you'll end the vicious cycle.

No one here agrees with Suicide bombers and i said this time and time again on this forum.
But we are giving them an oppitunity by just invading thier countries
Remember we started it just remind me exactly why we went into Iraq - it wasn't for WMD or Saddam being part of Al qaeda
no instead we went in for Oil their oil
It never was like this when Saddam was in power
Hell Sunni and Shiites were living side by side.
( it was a blessing that Saddam is gone, I much prefer the people to over throw him, thats was going to happen)

There are various religous extremist around the world
there are the Tamil Tigers A Hindu Terroist killing Buddis
Jewish extremists
IRA so on
plus Muslim terrosits were not the first people to use suicidal technique.

Also could you show me exactly where, have I ever agreed to suicide bombings, in my post, if thats what you are implying ?


please, let's not hijack the thread any further

Fine i'll end it cus its going too far
But I find it really hard that people will put a blind eye on certain issues .
I had friends who died in Lebanon because of the IDF bombardment of the Israeli seige and still people say its there fault that they died THAT GETS TO ME
Sort of reminds me of the Phelps family when they say that America deserved 9/11 or the holcaust deniers.
Also what I went through after 9/11 with all the abuse.

ABove all else I want to keep the peace and people to respect me for who I am .

One thing please research into Islam, its not as Warlike as the media tries make it to be and you will find how wrong suicide bombing is aswell as killing inoccent people.

[Tom Yum]

If you can explain to me how it is that someone can be driven to suicide bombings because they were humiliated by Americans in a prison or because their families died in a war while someone like John McCain can be tortured for years in a shit-hole prison camp and come out as successful as he has, please do so. It'sa cop out of the highest magnitude to suggest that someone's environment can be held exclusively and totally responsible for wanton slaughter of anyone and everyone that opposes their particular brand of fanatacism.

Amen!

Anyone else out there listening, its not just an American thing, its a human thing.

Look up the following individuals:

Mahatma Ghandi - suffered through years of beatings from peacful protest, became a catalyst for the British exit from India.

Viktor Frankl - holocaust survivor.

Nelson Mandela - spent 27 years in prison, reforming himself to eventually become a successful President of South Africa!

[DickHardman]

The real problem is that some people can't see propaganda when it's staring at them. They see American news as propagandist, but they refuse to acknowledge that just before complaining to al-Jazeera about all the dead innocents Americans have killed, the terrorists in Iraq just finished bombing a marketplace and murdering a couple hundred of those same innocents themselves.

People often talk about how we should recognize that suicide bombings and other similar tactics are "accepted means of warfare" in other cultures - as if that excuses the behavior somehow. What iuf we simply decided that nuclear warfare was "acceptable" under our own philosophies? Would others simply "understand?" Doubtful.

It's a little frustrating that so many people are willing to see hypocrisy in America, but not elsewhere, and that they are so willing to excuse the horrors committed by others by referring to "difficult circumstances" and still somehow dictate how America should fight.

Even more frustrating is the reaction you get when you point such behavior out tothe guilty parties...

well would you say there is a difference between plowing a carbomb into a crowd of civilians in a market place and the kamikaze pilots that flew their planes into warships? its not really the same thing inmop.

plus, how do we know those are iraqis that are killing all those civilians in those bombings? how do we know those arent the foreign fighters like al queda that iraqis are trying to hunt down and expell from their nighborhoods and countries? i read an article today about how iraqi police had to go home in one province because they didnt have enough firepower to fight the heavily armed insurgents roaming their streets with rpgs and rpks.

[DickHardman]

Would it be acceptable for us to run bombers over hotbed neighborhoods day and night?

have you forgotten about operation shock and awe??

Why do we have to accept that suicide bombings are a natural, culturally accepted phenomenon

i just dont think its right to throw every enemy into the same category.

Why are so many people so eager to make excuses for suicide bombers?

nobody is making any excuses for them, at least im not. i just said that those targeting civilians arent the same as those who target the military. and you agreed with this.

[Ahsen]

To Mike


The real question is, what if we decided we'd really had enough and it was time to bring the full weight of our military to bear on Iraq to solve the problem? Would it be acceptable for us to nuke them? Would it be acceptable for us to run bombers over hotbed neighborhoods day and night

That will only spring out more terrorists in other countries and US will loose international support. They can't afford to do that.
China is seriously under minding the US constantly on trade (see South America).
Beside The US will only use Nukes if they are threaten by Nukes by enemy state.
As for running bombers day and night they did this in Afghanistan but still the Talibans remained.

I didn't say that you were a supporter of suicide bombers. I didn't even imply it

no It was a question to you.
I just wanted to know whether you were , thats been answered.

However I would say as counter agrument on aonther post
No ones excuses suicide bombers, There is a difference explaining the root causes and making excuses for suicide bombers. cus i have no sympathy for people who kill or brainwash people to kill others espcially children.

[


And are you seriously using the comic-book movies put out by Hollywood as your real-life examples of human psychology?
I was merely giving you visual example
Mike seriously I was explaining the root causes, which have a fundamental issue.You still didn't answered the $1,000,000 question What would you have them to do. Go to a council and sort their madness out
there is no council how could you build it when basic living standards have not been achieved
Whos gonna help them out of their madness with all those kililng in front of them ?

Yes you are right people rise from the ashes but you can't say that with everyone. Everyones gonna react differently especially children also it depends on the situation and area they are in.
Yes there are hypocrisy of murdering civilians even the use of Suicide bombing is hypocritical in Islam.

Whether, using children for bombings or Israelis and Americans so-called recognition and overt war to kill some civilians who are supposingly harboring terrorists or insurgents, there's no different and two wrongs don't make it right either who ever side you pick.
AT the end You can't excuse Collateral damages . Just like terrorism both are killing civilains, otherwise you just acting like terrorist by doing so and proving thier point of view.
Neither of us can claim that they know the full story what goes on in that region. We both agree that killing civilains is wrong be it Colatral or Terroists

Now we are fighting to agree here



I apologies out rightly to Troll Virus for delrailing the thread further

case closed
-------------------------------------------------------------

Going back to the Phelps
Hate groups don't nessarly involve religous motive
Animal right protestor are such an example

[Tom Yum]

And like I said before, I won't buy the "dead families make suicide bombers" line. Plenty of people here and elsewhere suffer, and they aren't strapping on bombs...

Just to lighten things up a bit, I was joking around with this pretty middle-eastern ladyfriend of mine recently. She's cool and we go back and forth at each other. I asked her...

"Are you a terrorist?

"Huh", she responded.

Looks like you've got some bombs strapped to your chest!"




....I've got bruises now......just on my knees, but I think I'll be okay.

[DickHardman]

Just to lighten things up a bit, I was joking around with this pretty middle-eastern ladyfriend of mine recently. She's cool and we go back and forth at each other. I asked her...

"Are you a terrorist?

"Huh", she responded.

Looks like you've got some bombs strapped to your chest!"




....I've got bruises now......just on my knees, but I think I'll be okay.

and i thought jerry and george had it bad.....

[Tom Yum]

and i thought jerry and george had it bad.....

Damned carpet...