Hip Hop Profanity, Misogyny and Violence: Blame the Manufacturer

[Tom Yum]

The culture of "Gettin' Paid" has made the individual and his loot more important than literally everything else! The dignity of his culture, the respectability of his people, the honor of his women, and even the value of human life are minimized in favor of rolls of cash.

The culture of gettin' paid (whether hip hop or wallstreet) is reinforced by all of the things you've mentioned; not necessarily substituted in favor if.

dignity of culture - in the sense you can buy your way into high culture without any understanding or real participation in it

respectability of his people - in the sense that those less wealthy than he/she would envy his/her wealth

the honor of his women - in the sense that fancy cars, nice condominiums/houses and finely made italian suits attract modelesque women who wouldn't think about him otherwise

value of life - that his center of gravity circles around his high financial net worth

Its alluring to say the least, but an illusion when the chips come down.

[Tom Yum]

I agree with those ideals, Mike.

I was just telling it like it is in the previous post; not endorsing it.

[GonzoStyles]

Many rappers who try to send a positive message are forced to make comprimises.

forced?

once again boo hoo

give me a break, they made compromises without being forced by anything but a dollar sign. It is called artistic control Uke anyone who plans on making a living in music or entertainment that relinquishes this for a recording deal is a sellout it is that simple.

[medic06]

They can call all women names that would get a normal person slapped across the face.

Wrong, wrong, wrong WRONG!!!!!. . . . .

[Uke]

forced?

once again boo hoo

give me a break, they made compromises without being forced by anything but a dollar sign. It is called artistic control Uke anyone who plans on making a living in music or entertainment that relinquishes this for a recording deal is a sellout it is that simple.

I'm sorry but when did I imply that they compromise for any other reason? How many professional musicians make do it for free? Its their livelihood.

The article was well written, and no matter how many will attempt to take what they will out of context, the facts and situations remain the same.

If you bothered to read the instance where The Roots, which is a positive, upbeat hip hop band had to literally bribe radio stations to play the single, you might have learned something.

[medic06]

To me, Tom, it goes a little deeper. It's about thinking past today. It's about considering the future of your people, your country. As children, we are animals of instant gratification. We cry until we are fed or changed, and there's no consideration of patience at all; there's no understanding of the benefits of delaying our own gratification in favor of things like duty. As adults, we are supposed to have learned that the things we want are secondary to those things we need. More, we are supposed to have learned that we are a part of something bigger than our individual selves - we are a society and a culture that succeeds because of its size, its common interests, and its willingness to support itself. But these days, it seems like we are losing many of the things that hold that idea together. We feel entitled to things we used to have to earn. We feel the world owes us a living, owes us an environment of sterile political correctness where we never have to be offended, and at the same time, owes us a platform upon which we can offend whomever we choose. We demand that others respect our dignity, but we show no respect to one another. It's the heart of my issue with that kind of public image! They are allowed to say whatever they choose to whomever they choose. They can call all women names that would get a normal person slapped across the face. They can refer to each other by slave terms and epithets. They can litter their "art" with references to drugs and violence done for money and nothing more. And yet, these same people will call for the crucifixion of a radio host who uses similar language? It's down-to-the-bone hypocrisy, and I'm sorry, but I cannot and will not blame "the Manufacturers" for that. That's a function of individual self-importance and ego. The bottom line is that these people are more concerned with their "right now" than the "tomorrow" of their entire society, culture, and people. I find that to be a very negative thing indeed.

And lying down and accepting it as the norm is every bit as repulsive to me as the behavior itself.

I need you to clarify a bit. Who are "they"? Is it the same as "you people"??????

[DickHardman]

what do you guys think about the fact that pimps are looked at as role models and people with extremely high status by rappers??

[Uke]

This article is not excusing the artists or that consumers.

What this article is doing is showing a side of the industry that none of you see. A side that many of you assume that you know about, but have no experience and no source of information to base your personal, unilateral opinions on.

Of course in the end its the artists that make the songs. Its the artists that make the music. That's a given. This article does not dispute that, yet there is a lot of discussion going off in that tangent.

This article shows that while the artist is the one making the music, they may not be the ones who choose the type of music they make. Once you're under contract, you are obligated to perform and produce under the terms of the contract. Many artists spend the front money before they ever begin recording, so they become slaves to the label. Its their own fault, but that doesn't change the message that this article brings.

Once they begin recording, they are often told "They don't sound "Black" enough, or they don't sound urban enough. They are told to replace words like "Honeys", a word meant to refer to women, with bitches and ho's. Very few artists have creative control. And once the men who are worried about the numbers have creative control they will force artists to make what music they see fit and portray whatever images they feel will sell units.

Of course artists can say "Hey, I'm not going to do that". Those artists are sued and financially ruined as they don't have the resources to fight signed industry contracts and lawyers. Most artists cannot pay back the money that they've spent and have no alternative but to fulfill the terms of their contracts. Its in the best interest for the Record execs to recruit talent from poor neighborhoods because 9 times out of ten they are desperate for money, and making music for millions of dollars sounds like a winning proposition to any poor person. Not only that, but in the beginning they feel as though they won't hurt anyone by simply making music. The Record execs don't always tell them that they will be molded into whatever incarnations that the numbers show will sell.

Is this removing the blame from the artists? No. Is this an attempt to say that the industry is trying to "Keep the Black man down"? No. Is this even an attempt to ask any of you for help? No.

What it is however is an article full of facts and opinions from those in the industry who have been fighting for more positive messages and images in Hip Hop. There are instances highlighted in this article showing how new artists are made to portray strippers and so-called gangsters. This article provides evidence that not all rappers want to be gangsters or pimps, but the industry says that sells, so that is what they will promote.

If artist "A" makes a rap album that has positive messages and videos that aren't filled with gratuitous sex and violence, and because of that his entire project is shelved and doesn't see the light of day on the radio or concert, how do critics like you find out that there are positive artists and influences in hip hop? You don't. There are very few positive, mainstream Hip Hop icons. I say mainstream because there are tons of positive rappers, but they just don't ever make it to mainstream status.

So while the images seen today in the world of hip hop are largely those of pimps and so-called gangsters, the author of the above article wrote why those images are so largely disproportionate in terms of exposure. It didn't take a lot of brains to walk away with that impression. Just a willingness to read the article without preconceived notions and a need to equate this issue to a Black and White issue.

Many of the CEO's are Black. L.A. Reid is Black. Sean "Puffy" Combs is Black. Shawn "Jay-Z" Carter is Black. Russell Simmons is Black. Andre "Dr. Dre" Young is Black. Brian "Baby" Williams is Black.

Of course the majority of record execs are White as they have run the music business since the beginning, but the point is that it is less of a "Black or White" problem and more of a "exploitation of the artists" problem. Blacks can exploit people just like Whites can, so attempting to make this a case of "Whitey keepin' da Black man down" was just a few people's attempt to get a few biased rants off of their chests. I'm sure they've been holding it in for a long time and this article was just the excuse they needed to let loose. Taking this article out of context was just a safe, politically correct way of ranting without having a supposed cause.

[medic06]

What's "Wrong, wrong, wrong, WRONG?" If I called a woman a bitch or a whore, I'd get slapped - or I'd expect to! But that seems to be the normal term of endearment in many of the songs in question.

Please explain to me how I misspoke.

It's not used as a term of endearment in most cases. It's meant to be insulting. And you said "all". That's simply not true. Hip hop is much, much bigger than gansta rap, Tupac, and Biggie. However you don't see the positive side. That what the point of Uke posting this article.

[Uke]

what do you guys think about the fact that pimps are looked at as role models and people with extremely high status by rappers??

I think its no different than Hugh Hefner being looked upon as a role model. Hefner not only puts his women in magazines, he owns his own porn channel. I don't think its any different than Dennis Hof, who owns the Bunny Ranch and has his own show depicting women selling their ass on HBO.

In all cases, there are better role models. However, I don't think that Hugh Hefner, Dennis Hof or Bishop "Magic" Don Juan are role models or are meant to be role models. Personally, I think that America's problem is that people are always trying to outsource role models instead of focusing on being better parents and role models themselves.

Everyone who has radio or television airtime is NOT meant to be a role model. Part of the job as a parent is monitoring what your children see and hear. Too many people just want to sit their children in front of a TV and let it babysit them, and then strongly object to the programming when it doesn't mesh well with what they want their children to learn.

Not every program is for children. Not every facet of life is children friendly. If your child is watching rap videos and does or imitates something you find objectionable, its your responsibility as a parent to discuss those things with your child. Its your responsibility to make sure that your child isn't planted in front of MTV, zoning out.

However, instead of taking on those responsibilities, many would rather choose to censor and infringe upon the right to free speech and expression. Instead of taking an active role in their own children's lives, they(the people who seek to censor) wish to wipe out that which doesn't agree with their own sensibilities. They wouldn't have to worry so much about what images are on television if they set up guidelines, used the V-chip and actually talked to their kids about the specific messages they're afraid that children might be taking from these so-called "role models".

[medic06]

"And yes, in many ways, I'm a part of "they".

Yeah, stop called people bitches and hos Mike

[Uke]

It's not used as a term of endearment in most cases. It's meant to be insulting.

I have seen young women who call each other bitch so often that I don't think that they know each other's name. Its all in the context.

If I say "That bitch is beautiful", its not insulting.

If I say "That bitch isn't worth the time of day", that is insulting.

More than not, the context of what is being said is what determines whether a word like "bitch" is insulting. But this isn't Ebonics 101, and the issue isn't about what is an exceptable term. We both know that there are plenty of things that we could say that he'd get slapped for, and not because of Black or White reasons either.

People from a different walk of life can sense when someone is smug and pretentious. You and I have Black, White and Latino friends who all speak the same. Its not what they say ... its how they say it. Its their demeanor and their intent. Its obvious when someone turns their hat backwards to fit in. They don't usually get slapped for what they say, but because of the fact that they had no business saying it in the first place.

[medic06]

I stand corrected

[GonzoStyles]

What this article is doing is showing a side of the industry that none of you see. A side that many of you assume that you know about, but have no experience and no source of information to base your personal, unilateral opinions on.

But your opinion on this subject is more valid because you swallow some crybaby story about how the music industry exploits artists?
I guess your positive rap album was shelved by the executives at your label? What a crock just because someone happens to be stupid enough to sign away their artistic control you want me to blame the suits who "force" them into making this kind of music? cry me a river

This article shows that while the artist is the one making the music, they may not be the ones who choose the type of music they make.

artistic control

Once you're under contract, you are obligated to perform and produce under the terms of the contract.

once again this is why artistic control is a crucial element for anyone who actually gives a damn about their music. Too bad these wanna-be stars never spent 15 minutes in a library making an attempt to understand the industry they are enslaving themselves to.

Many artists spend the front money before they ever begin recording, so they become slaves to the label. Its their own fault, but that doesn't change the message that this article brings.

You keep talking about being "forced" when as a matter of fact they probably line up to sign away their rights, boo hoo the poor victimized rap artist!
You really expect anyone to buy this crappy excuse?
It is their own fault for signing up to be puppets of the music industry!

Once they begin recording, they are often told "They don't sound "Black" enough, or they don't sound urban enough. They are told to replace words like "Honeys", a word meant to refer to women, with bitches and ho's. Very few artists have creative control. And once the men who are worried about the numbers have creative control they will force artists to make what music they see fit and portray whatever images they feel will sell units.

Very few artists have creative control? That is because they have dollar signs in their eyes while signing the contract, it is called negotiation, whose fault is it that they didn't learn enough about the music industry to see how important that kind of control is, but hey if someone wants to sell out why are you crying about it? Oh yeah its not their fault they were "forced" into it

Of course artists can say "Hey, I'm not going to do that".

and if in the recording contract that they were "forced" to sign, they retain total artistic control of their material no one can do a damn thing about it.

Those artists are sued and financially ruined as they don't have the resources to fight signed industry contracts and lawyers. Most artists cannot pay back the money that they've spent and have no alternative but to fulfill the terms of their contracts. Its in the best interest for the Record execs to recruit talent from poor neighborhoods because 9 times out of ten they are desperate for money, and making music for millions of dollars sounds like a winning proposition to any poor person. Not only that, but in the beginning they feel as though they won't hurt anyone by simply making music. The Record execs don't always tell them that they will be molded into whatever incarnations that the numbers show will sell.

now the evil music executives are recruiting ignorant people just to make puppets out of them, well since this has been going on for 10+ years now you would think these "victims" being forced to "Ghettotize" their music would get the idea. But they really just don't give a damn or else they would make an effort to learn about the industry they plan on making a career out of.

Is this removing the blame from the artists? No. Is this an attempt to say that the industry is trying to "Keep the Black man down"? No. Is this even an attempt to ask any of you for help? No.

Then what the hell is it?

What it is however is an article full of facts and opinions from those in the industry who have been fighting for more positive messages and images in Hip Hop. There are instances highlighted in this article showing how new artists are made to portray strippers and so-called gangsters. This article provides evidence that not all rappers want to be gangsters or pimps, but the industry says that sells, so that is what they will promote.

If artist "A" makes a rap album that has positive messages and videos that aren't filled with gratuitous sex and violence, and because of that his entire project is shelved and doesn't see the light of day on the radio or concert, how do critics like you find out that there are positive artists and influences in hip hop? You don't. There are very few positive, mainstream Hip Hop icons. I say mainstream because there are tons of positive rappers, but they just don't ever make it to mainstream status.

So while the images seen today in the world of hip hop are largely those of pimps and so-called gangsters, the author of the above article wrote why those images are so largely disproportionate in terms of exposure. It didn't take a lot of brains to walk away with that impression. Just a willingness to read the article without preconceived notions and a need to equate this issue to a Black and White issue.

Many of the CEO's are Black. L.A. Reid is Black. Sean "Puffy" Combs is Black. Shawn "Jay-Z" Carter is Black. Russell Simmons is Black. Andre "Dr. Dre" Young is Black. Brian "Baby" Williams is Black.

Of course the majority of record execs are White as they have run the music business since the beginning, but the point is that it is less of a "Black or White" problem and more of a "exploitation of the artists" problem. Blacks can exploit people just like Whites can, so attempting to make this a case of "Whitey keepin' da Black man down" was just a few people's attempt to get a few biased rants off of their chests. I'm sure they've been holding it in for a long time and this article was just the excuse they needed to let loose. Taking this article out of context was just a safe, politically correct way of ranting without having a supposed cause.

then where are the albums done independently to help promote peace or stop drugs or the sexualization of women? You want to tell me that artists are bound for life by these contracts? You want to believe that they are controlled for life by this industry? You named a few rappers that are now producers, where are their positive albums or artists? I guess you make yourself believe this crap since you have refered to them as "slaves" stop fooling yourself, these artists could make sacrifices to put out the material you say is being suppressed, after their contract is up they could do anything they want but most just keep on putting out Thug & Ho music not because its what they know but because as you stated it is what sells.


Recording contracts are not for life and if any artists wanted to do a benefit album while under contract to help crack addicts or single mothers or hurricane victims their label would probably jump at the chance but you know what Uke?
They don't because they are just as guilty of wanting to making money from Thug & Ho music as the suits who "force" them into being "slaves" to the gangster rap image.

excuse me but I need a new box of tissues!

[medic06]

There are positive hip hop albums out there, you just don't hear about them. Now your being contentious just for the sake of contentiousness. . . . .