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Yojimbo:
One last point; at least one of the guns used at Colombine was bought by one of the killers' girlfriend, at the gun show. She was 18.
Granted, she probably would have passed the background check, but at least it would have slowed them down a little.
You fellows make some good points, that I will consider.
And yes, you are correct, the Yojimbo in the movie of the same name WAS a Ronin, i.e. masterless samurai. That would make us brothers, possibly even twins.
We will have to try and get along, for mom's sake.Comment
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---Ronin
"As Pit Dog would say, the value of a person's "opinion" is in direct relation to their knowledge and level of expertise in the given subject.
JB characterized AmeriCORPs as being "full of holes" if memory serves. If he doesn't have the knowledge to elaborate, maybe he should just keep his uninformed opinion to himself."
You did not challenge his statement in any way other than to ask if he was an expert on the subject. You did not criticize his lack of elaboration on the topic. You simply asked him if he was an expert on the topic. The fact that he did not choose to elaborate further does not mean that he was incapable of doing so. If you suspected that he lacked knowledge in the area, you should have challenged him to explain his positiion in further detail and evaluated his response. A person's credentials should not neccisarily be the final word on the topic.
"Personally, I can't say whether AmeriCORPs works or not. I don't have any first-hand knowledge."
Are you saying that only people with first-hand knowledge can "say whether AmeriCORPs works or not."? The group of people with first-hand knowledge of AmeriCORPs mostly consists of those who either receive/have received money from the program or are employed/have been employed in the agency which is responsible for distribution of the money. If they are the only people who's opinions count, we can end the debate right now. THEY ARE IN FAVOR OF IT!!!
"By contrast, everyone is entitled to an opinion about firearms. It is a fairly straight-forward subject."
I don't see why the firearms debate is any less complex than the AmeriCORPs debate. The way statistics are manipulated to further the propagand on both sides of the firearms debate alone tends to weaken your argument that the issue is "a fairly straight-forward subject."
---Big Bird
"You must not know to much about americorp. I have a few friends that went thru it and all they can say is positive things about it."
WOW, I am absolutely shocked that your friends, who were BENEFITING from the program, would actually be in favor of it.Comment
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Not to prolong this tedious debate, but since you asked me a direct question I will, out of politeness, try to answer it.
Most conservatives like John automatically hate and criticize any government program. AmeriCORPS has been attacked from its inception by Republicans who despise anything and everything "Clinton". It does not APPEAR to me that the program has been judged on its own merits, either way. It is simply criticized because it is new and government-run, and therefore evil.
J.B.'s position appeared to me to be a knee-jerk response, and his silence indicates that I was correct. He doesn't know anything about AmeriCORPS. He just knows he doesn't like it. I don't know anything about it either, but I try not to have an opinion about things which I know nothing of. Furthermore, whether AmeriCORPS is beneficial or not, it is clearly not a DETRIMENT to society.
By contrast, I know that guns kill children, and I therefore BELIEVE that fewer guns would result in fewer deaths. By the way, I would trade the rights of all gun owners for the life of one child, but that isn't up to me. Be glad that it isn't, my 2nd Amendment loving friend.
Later.Comment
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I couldn't agree more. I think we need to pass laws banning Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. This horrible martial art KILLS PEOPLE. Please stop the insanity. Call your local Congressman and Senator to get legislation started on making it illegal to practice this martial art that goes around killing people.
About the Guns. I tell you I know the problem about guns killing people. Just last night my gun tried to sneak out of the house. It had loaded itself with Black Talon bullets, so I know he had mischief on his mind.
FOR THE LOVE OF LIFE "PLEASE OUTLAW THESE GUNS" THEY ARE A MENACE TO SOCIETY.
Cleatus "Left Wing" Ledbetter
P.S. We need to release all of our incarcerated brothers that are being imprisoned in the U.S. for offenses committed with guns. We all know the truth. They just had misbehaving guns. The guns should be serving the time, not the fellows holding them.
Again I say "SET OUR BROTHERS FREE". Just don't let them move in next to me. Ronin, What is your address?
[Edited by Cleatus Ledbetter on 10-10-2000 at 09:45 AM]Comment
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Was that an attempt at sarcasm?
It takes years of training to kill someone with martial arts technique, and still isn't easy.
A knife can be deadly, but only within a few feet.
A gun is lethal up to 100 yards, and requires no skill to operate, just an index finger.
If you're going to be ridiculous, at least try to be clever.Comment
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Ronin:
As a brother in Christ, I don't mean to insult you; however, if it took you years to learn a little windpipe choke, I may need to confiscate your Gi.
Cleatus Bartholomew Ledbetter
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Cleatus:
Performing a choke is easy.
Performing a choke on the street against someone who is trying their best to KILL you is hard.
If you don't agree, go try it.
Then try choking out a school full of kids, and see how many you can kill before the cops arrive and shoot you dead.
Game, set, and match my little friend.Comment
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Brother Ronin:
Why don't you ask some of our Australian friends what happens when you disarm the law abiding citizens? I'll give you a hint. Crime rates have increase dramatically.
This is a fact. With this knowledge in hand Ronin, what reasonable basis could you have to advocate banning guns?
(The "keeping the children safe" excuse is horsecrap. A child is nothing but a magnified reflection of the individuals that produced the child)
The criminals hope you liberals win this battle. They are already planning their first block party.(please review footage of L.A. riots)
Cleatus "Rush is Right" Ledbetter
P.S. In response to how many people I could choke out before the police arrive.
Demographics= Number or chokeouts
High School Football players= 5-7
Junior High Band members= 12-15
Elementry School math team= 20-25
Kindergarden- I'm sorry but I would not stoop to choking out children at a distinct physical disadvantage.
[Edited by Cleatus Ledbetter on 10-10-2000 at 03:22 PM]Comment
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Cleatus:
If you bother to actually read my posts, instead of just calling me the dreaded "L-word", you would realize that I have no interest in disarming "law-abiding citizens". I'm interested in disarming criminals. However, if COMPLETELY DISARMING CRIMINALS, impinges somewhat on the rights of law-abiding citizens, that's a chance I'm personally willing to take in order to SAVE LIVES.
Now, if you and your ditto-head friends can show me one shred of evidence besides off-hand anecdotes about Australia that clamping down on guns won't lead to fewer deaths, then I'll shut up. However, common sense suggests otherwise. Britain: no guns, low crime. Canada: no guns, low crime. Japan: no guns, low crime. America: lots of guns, lots of crime, lots of gun-related homicides.
Fewer guns = less crime? Or at least fewer deaths? IMO, yes.
To put it in simple terms, I want to make it as difficult as possible for ANY citizen to obtain a firearm, and completely IMPOSSIBLE for a criminal or deranged individual to get one and go on a rampage. If it takes 100 years, we should start now.
Done.Comment
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Ronin:
I had to update my priop post to present the information you requested. Please review my prior post.
This is not a good comparison. These countries you mention did not have the problems we have today in the U.S. You are comparing apples to oranges.
C.B. LedbetterComment
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No, they don't, do they?
Maybe because they never legalized the damn things in the first place?
I'm all for letting people own self-loading muskets, as provided for in the Constitution, but semi-autos and armor-piercing bullets?
Get real, man. By the way, your point about kids was incomprehensible. Something about their being "the product of their parents"? My point is that kids are DYING and all the gun lobby does is whine about "their rights". Who cares? High school drama club kids (and others) deserve to be safe in their own freaking school.
In case you didn't notice, Colombine hit me hard. I have worked extensively with teenagers since high school, and I used to be a lot like the Colombine killers. The idea of myself at that age with a machine-gun is terrifying. Because I had the exact same fantasy (mowing down the cafeteria indiscriminately) that they did.Comment
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Ronon: I apologize for the confusion, my little brain was trying to process to much information at the same time.
The point I unsuccessfully tried to make is, kids are product of their home life. The blame for incidents like what happened at Colombine belongs to the perpetraters and their parents. If the parents are that out of touch with what their kids are doing, they need to held accountable.
Right or wrong, this is my opinion. I believe there are a lot of people, like myself, that are sick and tired of
"The Blame Game". It is time to quit looking for a scape goat and lay blame where it belongs.
These types of incidents are not caused by Guns, the NRA, nor the oppressive Honky man. Let us all please take responsibility for our actions. Pretty Please.
Cleatus "The Self-Rightous" Ledbetter
[Edited by Cleatus Ledbetter on 10-10-2000 at 04:25 PM]Comment
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I think that Rickson...oh oops!
Took a wrong turn somewhere Carry on.
RyuComment
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