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  • The Battle for Iraq is About Oil and Democracy, Not Religion!

    The Battle for Iraq is About Oil and Democracy, Not Religion! By Joshua Holland and Raed Jarrar, Posted September 10, 2007.



    "As Gen. Petraeus takes the D.C. stage, he and the media are only giving half of the story. Shockingly, the United States, Iran and al Qaeda have the same goals in Iraq."



    This week, we'll be buried under a crush of analysis about an Iraq that's being ravaged by a religious civil war -- an incomprehensible war between "militants" of various stripes and "the Iraqi people." But Americans will be poorly served by the media's singular focus on Iraq's "sectarian violence." It obscures the fact that sectarian fighting is a symptom -- a street-level manifestation -- of a massive political conflict over what kind of country Iraq will be, who will rule it and who will control its enormous oil wealth.

    And it obscures the great irony of the American project: that in that defining conflict over the future of the country, the Bush administration, with the support of Congress, has taken the same side as Iran's hardliners and the same side as the Sunni fundamentalist group called al Qaeda in Iraq. All are working -- separately, but towards the same ends -- against the wishes of a majority of Iraqis, who polls show want a united, sovereign country in control of its own resources and free of meddling by Washington, Tehran and other foreigners.

    Tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands of Iraqis have died violent deaths since the U.S.-led invasion in 2003, many of them as a result of the civil conflicts that have pitted Iraqi against Iraqi. But those conflicts have nothing to do with the differences that distinguish the different branches of Islam -- Iraq isn't struggling with a religious civil war.

    Iraqis are fighting over fundamental questions about the future of their country. They're fighting over whether it will have a strong central government or be a weak confederation of semiautonomous states, over how soon and to what degree it will be independent of foreign influence, over who will control its massive energy reserves and under what terms they will be developed -- all of these things are tangible, concrete issues that are crucial in determining Iraq's future.

    We refer to this central political conflict as one between Iraqi separatists and nationalists. Loosely speaking, separatists favor a "soft partition" of Iraq into at least three zones with strong regional governments, similar to the semiautonomous Kurdish "state" in Northern Iraq; they are at least willing to tolerate foreign influence -- meaning Iranian, U.S. or other powers' influence, depending on which group one is discussing -- for the foreseeable future; they favor privatizing Iraq's massive energy reserves and ceding substantial control of the country's oil sector to regional authorities.

    Nationalists are just the opposite: They reject any foreign interference in Iraq's affairs, they favor a strong technocratic central government in Baghdad that's not based on sectarian voting blocs and they oppose privatizing Iraq's oil and natural gas reserves on the extraordinarily generous terms (to the oil companies) proposed by the U.S. government and institutions like the IMF. They favor centralized control over the development of Iraq's oil and gas reserves.

    That's not to say that ethic and sectarian violence isn't real, or isn't a significant problem in Iraq. The point is that violence based on religious or ethnic identity -- Shiite or Sunni or Christian, Arab or Turkman or Kurd -- is an extension of these fundamental disputes over what the future of Iraq will hold.

    Sectarian and political tensions overlap in a fluid, shifting dynamic. The Iraqi parliament began as an institution of largely sectarian coalitions, but over the past two years, as the occupation has continued to grind on, sectarian-based politics have become overshadowed by divisions between nationalists and separatists. The result of the media's singular focus on sectarian conflict is that most Americans are unable to grasp the changing terrain of Iraq's political landscape with anything approaching a sense of the context in which events occur.

    Consider a recent development of some significance. At the end of August, five Iraqi parties -- representing Sunni and Shiite Arabs and Kurds -- signed a "unity accord" or a "five-party manifesto" that Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki claimed was a sign of new movement towards national reconciliation. The White House said it was "an important symbol of unity in Iraq," and congratulated "Iraq's leaders on the important agreement." A spokesman for the Iranian government called it "productive and positive." The truth, however, was that it was an agreement among parties that had long agreed -- among five Shiite, Sunni and Kurdish separatist parties that had been loosely allied since at least 2000, when all belonged to the London-based Iraqi exile group called the "Independent Iraqi Democrats." All five parties were strategic allies in the 2002 "London Conference," preparing and justifying a U.S.-led invasion. The five parties have long supported al-Maliki's regime. In fact, they are al-Maliki's regime, but the commercial media never took note of that fact.

    Similarly, most Americans remain largely unaware of the political tensions that have created an almost irreconcilable impasse within the Iraqi government. The U.S.-backed al-Maliki "government" -- the Iraqi cabinet -- is dominated by separatists, including Shiites like Abdul Aziz Al-Hakeem, leader of the pro-Iranian group SIIC (formerly SCIRI), and al-Maliki himself, representing the al-Dawa Party; Sunnis like Iraqi Vice President Tariq Al-Hashimi of the Islamic Party, Iraq's President Jalal Talabani from the Patriotic Union of Kurdistan, and Massoud Barzani, the president of the Kurdish autonomous government, representing the the Kurdistan Democratic Party. (Yes, these are exactly the same five parties that met last month and repackaged their old alliance as a new political victory.)

    At the same time, Shiite (al-Sadr Movement, al-Fadhila Party), Sunni (the National Dialogue Council and the People of Iraq's Council) and secular (the National Dialogue Front and the Iraqi National list) nationalist groups -- along with a few Kurdish, Christian and Yazidi representatives -- have a slight working majority in the Iraqi Council of Representatives. The division between Iraq's governing coalition and a majority of its legislators explains why so many resolutions are accepted by the cabinet in one day, but spend months without being acknowledged by the parliament and vice-versa.

    Also obscured by the media's focus on sectarian conflict is the massive divide between U.S. interests and the desires of most Iraqis on the most important issues facing the nascent state. Reached in Finland last week, Saleh al-Mutlaq, head of the secular National Dialogue Front, said, "What we're facing in Iraq is a political war in which the U.S. is taking one side."

    The clearest but not sole example of that is the controversial oil laws that the Iraqi government has struggled with for over a year. While the White House puts relentless pressure on Iraqi lawmakers to pass a law that throws Iraq's energy sector open to foreign investors, a recent poll found that almost two out of three Iraqis would "prefer Iraq's oil to be developed and produced by Iraqi public sector companies rather than foreign companies."

    Reached by phone this week in Amman, Jordan, Khalaf al-Ulayyan, head of the National Dialogue Council, one of the key Sunni groups that pulled out of al-Maliki's cabinet last month, described a conflict that was anything but religious. "My party is one among many different Iraqi groups -- Sunnis, Shias and seculars -- who are working together inside the parliament to block the law," Ulayyan said. "This oil and gas law is a major threat to Iraq's future."

    His comments were almost indistinguishable from those of Shiite nationalist Nadim al-Jaberi, the head of the al Fadhila Party, who told us by phone from Baghdad that his party favors a public referendum "regarding the oil law to prove that the majority of the Iraqi people are against this law." He added, "The U.S. is putting maximum pressure to pass the law."

    On the issue of federalism, key lawmakers from both parties in Washington, along with a host of foreign-policy think tanks and media pundits, have called for partitioning Iraq into three semiautonomous regions in a loose federation. Iraqi separatists are happy with that for the obvious reasons: The strongest pro-Iranian groups want to have their Shiastan just as most of the Kurdish leadership want to keep their Kurdistan. The Islamic Party, the lone Sunni group in the bunch, is a staunch supporter of the occupation, opposes any talk of a U.S. withdrawal and supports Kurdish and Shiite separatists' aspirations.

    Al-Qaeda in Iraq is thrilled with the idea as well. The fundamentalist group, which had no presence in Iraq prior to the 2003 invasion, announced that it planned to build an exclusively Sunni "Islamic State" in the middle of Iraq; a "Sunnistan." And while the United States is claiming that its military operations in Anbar province have cut down on the violence there, the truth is that Sunni chieftains and other nationalists in Anbar only turned on the militants after they called for the creation of a separate Islamic state. That was months before the additional U.S. troops were on the ground.

    Here, too, the separatist position backed by the United States is unpopular among Iraqis; a poll conducted last September found that majorities of all of Iraq's major ethnic and sectarian groups favor a strong central government in Baghdad (although even the most hard-core Iraqi nationalists understand the importance of the unique status of the Kurdish autonomous areas and don't object to the current system).

    Of course, the most important issue facing Iraq is when and if Iraqi sovereignty will be restored. According to the poll cited above, "seven in ten Iraqis want U.S.-led forces to commit to withdraw within a year. An overwhelming majority believes that the United States military presence in Iraq is provoking more conflict than it is preventing." That view is shared by a (slim) majority of Iraqi lawmakers -- remember, nationalists have the upper hand in parliament -- but rejected by the al-Maliki government.

    continued .......

  • #2
    The Battle for Iraq is About Oil and Democracy, Not Religion!

    The Battle for Iraq is About Oil and Democracy, Not Religion! By Joshua Holland and Raed Jarrar, Posted September 10, 2007.



    ......... continued


    The contours of these very real and very important conflicts are vital to understanding where the American project in Iraq is and where it's heading. But Americans aren't being given the whole picture. Consider how a few recent stories out of Iraq look in the context of a political rather than religious civil war:


    The Petraeus report's "progress"

    Although many are already skeptical of general Petraeus' widely anticipated testimony about the supposedly improving security situation in Iraq, understanding the full range of conflict that afflicts Iraq makes the White House's claim that its troop "surge" has reduced violence even more dubious. As Paul Krugman noted last week, only sectarian killings count in the Pentagon's books:


    "Apparently, the Pentagon has a double supersecret formula that it uses to distinguish sectarian killings [bad] from other deaths [not important]; according to press reports, all deaths from car bombs are excluded, and one intelligence analyst told the Washington Post that "if a bullet went through the back of the head, it's sectarian. If it went through the front, it's criminal." So the number of dead is down, as long as you only count certain kinds of dead people."



    So it's a "progress report" that ignores the fact that the thousands of Iraqis who were killed, and other millions who have lost their homes are victims of a separatist political agenda that had one major obstacle during the last years: the millions of Sunnis living in "Shiastan," Shia living in "Sunnistan," and Arabs living in "Kurdistan." Even the so called "sectarian deaths" are about implementing a political agenda.


    Why "start over" with the Iraqi police, but not the army?

    Last week, a U.S. commission studying the situation in Iraq suggested that the Iraqi police force "be scrapped" -- presumably putting 26,000 heavily armed men out of work -- and that a new force be built from scratch. The reason: It's infiltrated by "sectarian militias" and can't be trusted, according to the commission.

    Sharp observers must have been dumbfounded: Analysts agree that the Iraqi army is just as deeply infiltrated with militia forces and, like the police, they are also Shiite militias accused of "sectarian violence." Among Iraqis, the two institutions are ranked similarly -- about six in 10 have confidence in both the police and the army.

    What's really going on is a mystery to most news consumers: The Iraqi police force is deeply infiltrated by Shiite nationalists -- specifically members of the Mahdi Army -- and the army is essentially controlled by Shiite separatists, specifically the Badr Organization Linked to SIIC. This U.S. bias, supporting the Iraqi Army against the Iraqi police, is not new; in May, U.S. warplanes dropped leaflets on Al-Diwaniya, a Southern Iraqi city, asking the local police to "stay home" while the Iraqi army was attacking militia fighters in the city. The U.S. military didn't just threaten to kill any policemen who left their homes, it launched airstrikes against local police buildings when members of the Iraqi Army called for backup.


    Factions battling in the "power vacuum" in Basra

    Of the Shia-on-Shia conflict in the southern provinces, a conflict in which British defense officials estimate 5,000 people have been killed over the past two years, most reporting has been of a vague battle between generic Shiite "factions" over "power." That's true, but lacking the vital details: it is a civil war between Shiite separatists -- pro-Iranian parties led by SIIC and backed by al-Maliki's coalition and the United States -- and Shiite nationalists from the Al-Fadhila party allied to one degree or another with the fiercely nationalistic Muqtada al-Sadr.

    In Najaf, SIIC and the Dawa Party seem to have the upper hand, but not in Iraq's eight other southern provinces. Separatist governors have been assassinated in two of those provinces in the past month, along with their bodyguards, and in both instances Sadrists were suspected of having carried out the attacks. They're members of the same Muslim sect fighting over earthly issues -- power, national identity, sovereignty and control of wealth. But the media won't tell the story in its complexity, as it doesn't fit the sectarian civil war narrative.


    Political impasse, not sectarian divide, has brought al-Maliki's government to standstill

    The media has made much of the fracturing of al-Maliki's governing coalition, but for the most part hasn't explained that his government has come apart along political lines -- with Iraqi nationalists of every sect and ethnicity distancing themselves from al-Maliki, a Shiite separatist. One of the first parties to abandon the coalition was al-Fadhila, a Shiite nationalist party that draws strength from the poor in the south of the country. It pulled out of the Shia coalition, the United Iraqi Alliance, in March, joining other Sunni and secular nationalists. Reached by phone this week in Baghdad, the head of Fadhila, Nadim al-Jaberi, said that his party "was the pioneer in breaking up the sectarian-based coalitions in the parliament and government, and in calling for a new regrouping that's politically based regardless of sects and ethnic roots."

    The Islamic Party, a Sunni separatist party, made a similar move. In joining other Shia and Kurdish separatist groups, the Islamic Party effectively broke up the largest Sunni block in the Iraqi parliament, the Accord Front. None of this fits into the neat sectarian conflict that's become the conventional wisdom about what's going on in Iraq.


    Crazy ragheads

    The frame of a religious civil war not only obscures the fact that the United States is backing a deeply unpopular side in Iraq's political strife -- that America is in fact an enemy of the Iraqi people, not of its "extremists" -- it also plays into the popular but profoundly wrong notion that the conflict in Iraq is based on an age-old and perfectly irrational dispute over Islamic theological issues. In the West, it's widely believed that religious wars are "primitive" -- something Europeans shook off during the Age of Enlightenment -- while the kind of struggles over land, wealth and power that are raging in Iraq, while unfortunate, are believed to be a necessary component of statehood. By ignoring the political divides that ultimately fuel the violence plaguing Iraq -- by focusing on the violent symptoms and ignoring the underlying disease -- the conventional wisdom plays perfectly into the widespread belief that the bloodshed in Iraq is being carried out by fanatical savages beyond our understanding.

    That, in turn, diverts responsibility for the chaos that followed the U.S. invasion away from American imperial hubris. After all, how could rational, Western war planners in Maryland or Virginia possibly predict an orgy of sectarian violence when they decided to dismantle the Iraqi government and security forces and replace them with an occupation force with a "light footprint"?

    But more importantly than that, the religious civil war narrative obscures the fact that the United States is not working towards political reconciliation in Iraq. As we've detailed before, Iraq's nationalist groups -- groups representing the majority of Iraqis -- have reached out repeatedly in a series of attempts to reach a peaceful, negotiated end to the occupation and have been rebuffed. Instead of supporting the very groups that aspire to an independent Iraq where Iranians would not interfere and groups like al Qaeda would find no shelter, we are riding the wrong horse.

    Comment


    • #3
      Its also about Religion

      Uke-lay-lay, didn't Osama bin Laden himself try to use Islam as a bargaining chip for peace with the west? He stated something to the effect that the only way Al-Qaeda would cease its terrorist attempts at the US and the west, was if the U.S. would convert to Islam.

      That seems religious to me? I think the war in Iraq involves alot of themes and justifications, perhaps a pre-emptive strike against radical Islam?

      Bin Laden urges Americans to embrace Islam


      Straight from the mouth of Bin Laden himself:

      "To conclude, I invite you to embrace Islam, for the greatest mistake one can make in this world and one which is uncorrectable is to die while not surrendering to Allah, the Most High, in all aspects of one's life - ie., to die outside of Islam. And Islam means gain for you in this first life and the next, final life. The true religion is a mercy for people in their lives, filling their hearts with serenity and calm."

      Bin Laden desires the rest of the world to convert to Islam.

      Transcript


      Uke, aren't you glad we have the freedom of religion in this country?
      Last edited by Tom Yum; 09-13-2007, 10:19 PM.

      Comment


      • #4
        There were people representing some 100+ nations whom died from the WTC plane crash. Some whom were hard working, family folks, Muslim and American citizens. Here's a partial list...

        Samad Afridi
        Ashraf Ahmad
        Shabbir Ahmad (45 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and 3 children)
        Umar Ahmad
        Azam Ahsan
        Ahmed Ali
        Tariq Amanullah (40 years old; Fiduciary Trust Co.; ICNA website team member; leaves wife and 2 children)
        Touri Bolourchi (69 years old; United Airlines #175; a retired nurse from Tehran)
        Salauddin Ahmad Chaudhury
        Abdul K. Chowdhury (30 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
        Mohammad S. Chowdhury (39 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and child born 2 days after the attack)
        Jamal Legesse Desantis
        Ramzi Attallah Douani (35 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
        SaleemUllah Farooqi
        Syed Fatha (54 years old; Pitney Bowes)
        Osman Gani
        Mohammad Hamdani (50 years old)
        Salman Hamdani (NYPD Cadet)
        Aisha Harris (21 years old; General Telecom)
        Shakila Hoque (Marsh & McLennan)
        Nabid Hossain
        Shahzad Hussain
        Talat Hussain
        Mohammad Shah Jahan (Marsh & McLennan)
        Yasmeen Jamal
        Mohammed Jawarta (MAS security)
        Arslan Khan Khakwani
        Asim Khan
        Ataullah Khan
        Ayub Khan
        Qasim Ali Khan
        Sarah Khan (32 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
        Taimour Khan (29 years old; Karr Futures)
        Yasmeen Khan
        Zahida Khan
        Badruddin Lakhani
        Omar Malick
        Nurul Hoque Miah (36 years old)
        Mubarak Mohammad (23 years old)
        Boyie Mohammed (Carr Futures)
        Raza Mujtaba
        Omar Namoos
        Mujeb Qazi
        Tarranum Rahim
        Ehtesham U. Raja (28 years old)
        Ameenia Rasool (33 years old)
        Naveed Rehman
        Yusuf Saad
        Rahma Salie & unborn child (28 years old; American Airlines #11; wife of Michael Theodoridis; 7 months pregnant)
        Shoman Samad
        Asad Samir
        Khalid Shahid (25 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald; engaged to be married in November)
        Mohammed Shajahan (44 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
        Naseema Simjee (Franklin Resources Inc.'s Fiduciary Trust)
        Jamil Swaati
        Sanober Syed
        Robert Elias Talhami (40 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
        Michael Theodoridis (32 years old; American Airlines #11; husband of Rahma Salie)
        W. Wahid

        Comment


        • #5
          I tried reading that article twice and all I got from it was a huge headache. I don't know how y'all can understand all of that political double talk.

          I'm moving on to something easier to understand, like "Teitz Textbook of Clinical Chemistry" . . . .

          Comment


          • #6
            Its only a matter of time before pUke books his flight to Waziristan.

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Tom Yum View Post
              There were people representing some 100+ nations whom died from the WTC plane crash. Some whom were hard working, family folks, Muslim and American citizens. Here's a partial list...

              Samad Afridi
              Ashraf Ahmad
              Shabbir Ahmad (45 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and 3 children)
              Umar Ahmad
              Azam Ahsan
              Ahmed Ali
              Tariq Amanullah (40 years old; Fiduciary Trust Co.; ICNA website team member; leaves wife and 2 children)
              Touri Bolourchi (69 years old; United Airlines #175; a retired nurse from Tehran)
              Salauddin Ahmad Chaudhury
              Abdul K. Chowdhury (30 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
              Mohammad S. Chowdhury (39 years old; Windows on the World; leaves wife and child born 2 days after the attack)
              Jamal Legesse Desantis
              Ramzi Attallah Douani (35 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
              SaleemUllah Farooqi
              Syed Fatha (54 years old; Pitney Bowes)
              Osman Gani
              Mohammad Hamdani (50 years old)
              Salman Hamdani (NYPD Cadet)
              Aisha Harris (21 years old; General Telecom)
              Shakila Hoque (Marsh & McLennan)
              Nabid Hossain
              Shahzad Hussain
              Talat Hussain
              Mohammad Shah Jahan (Marsh & McLennan)
              Yasmeen Jamal
              Mohammed Jawarta (MAS security)
              Arslan Khan Khakwani
              Asim Khan
              Ataullah Khan
              Ayub Khan
              Qasim Ali Khan
              Sarah Khan (32 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
              Taimour Khan (29 years old; Karr Futures)
              Yasmeen Khan
              Zahida Khan
              Badruddin Lakhani
              Omar Malick
              Nurul Hoque Miah (36 years old)
              Mubarak Mohammad (23 years old)
              Boyie Mohammed (Carr Futures)
              Raza Mujtaba
              Omar Namoos
              Mujeb Qazi
              Tarranum Rahim
              Ehtesham U. Raja (28 years old)
              Ameenia Rasool (33 years old)
              Naveed Rehman
              Yusuf Saad
              Rahma Salie & unborn child (28 years old; American Airlines #11; wife of Michael Theodoridis; 7 months pregnant)
              Shoman Samad
              Asad Samir
              Khalid Shahid (25 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald; engaged to be married in November)
              Mohammed Shajahan (44 years old; Marsh & McLennan)
              Naseema Simjee (Franklin Resources Inc.'s Fiduciary Trust)
              Jamil Swaati
              Sanober Syed
              Robert Elias Talhami (40 years old; Cantor Fitzgerald)
              Michael Theodoridis (32 years old; American Airlines #11; husband of Rahma Salie)
              W. Wahid

              http://islam.about.com/blvictims.htm


              thanks tom

              Comment


              • #8
                Originally posted by Mr. Arieson
                Two questions:

                1. Were there any followers of Islam that perished in the world trade center?

                2. The people that are routinely found bound, gagged and executed in Iraq as a result of sectarian violence, are they followers of Islam?

                I am just wondering, as Osama wants everyone to convert or be killed. Seems to me that some already did convert, and have been killed anyway.
                Of course there were people from all walks of life that died in the WTF disaster.

                I have to say though, that if these replies are indicative of what you all walked away with after having read that article which had tremendously more to say than any of you could even think to reply to ... then why even bother replying?

                You all hail OBL as if he is the spokesperson for every single Muslim in the world because you need to believe that in order to respond in the manner in which you do. It doesn't bother me, but you look foolish doing so. I and most of the world outside of your bubbles clearly remember OBL stating that he DID NOT have anything to do with 9-11, even though he said that he wished that he did.

                Later on, we find supposed tapes where a man we assume to be OBL makes speeches and discloses information that supports our fears and justifies our war agenda. Very credible.

                Medic06: I agree that this article was very long. Well researched and written but long. Read the following quote which is just the last paragraph to get the gist of what the article was trying to convey.

                The frame of a religious civil war not only obscures the fact that the United States is backing a deeply unpopular side in Iraq's political strife -- that America is in fact an enemy of the Iraqi people, not of its "extremists" -- it also plays into the popular but profoundly wrong notion that the conflict in Iraq is based on an age-old and perfectly irrational dispute over Islamic theological issues. In the West, it's widely believed that religious wars are "primitive" -- something Europeans shook off during the Age of Enlightenment -- while the kind of struggles over land, wealth and power that are raging in Iraq, while unfortunate, are believed to be a necessary component of statehood. By ignoring the political divides that ultimately fuel the violence plaguing Iraq -- by focusing on the violent symptoms and ignoring the underlying disease -- the conventional wisdom plays perfectly into the widespread belief that the bloodshed in Iraq is being carried out by fanatical savages beyond our understanding.

                That, in turn, diverts responsibility for the chaos that followed the U.S. invasion away from American imperial hubris. After all, how could rational, Western war planners in Maryland or Virginia possibly predict an orgy of sectarian violence when they decided to dismantle the Iraqi government and security forces and replace them with an occupation force with a "light footprint"?

                But more importantly than that, the religious civil war narrative obscures the fact that the United States is not working towards political reconciliation in Iraq. As we've detailed before, Iraq's nationalist groups -- groups representing the majority of Iraqis -- have reached out repeatedly in a series of attempts to reach a peaceful, negotiated end to the occupation and have been rebuffed. Instead of supporting the very groups that aspire to an independent Iraq where Iranians would not interfere and groups like al Qaeda would find no shelter, we are riding the wrong horse.

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by Uke View Post

                  I have to say though, that if these replies are indicative of what you all walked away with after having read that article which had tremendously more to say than any of you could even think to reply to ... then why even bother replying?

                  You all hail OBL as if he is the spokesperson for every single Muslim in the world because you need to believe that in order to respond in the manner in which you do.
                  Where did I state that OBL is the spokesperson for every single Muslim in the world?
                  Last edited by Tom Yum; 09-15-2007, 07:00 AM.

                  Comment


                  • #10

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Mr. Arieson
                      "A solar panel 100 miles by 100 miles (161x161km) in the Mojave Desert (USA) could replace all the coal now burned to generate electricity in the entire U.S. ".


                      A monumentally stupid idea.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        fucking moron

                        Originally posted by Mr. Arieson
                        "That's where I agreed 100% with Bill Clinton, in that this was a matter for the police. .


                        Yeah, look how well that attitude worked out.

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by Mr. Arieson
                          And by the way, do you ever get "infractions"? I mean, you just called me a "fucking moron". You almost always call people names, or do personal attacks.
                          Look at his avatar closely.....while imagining him saying that....LOL. Isn't that hillarious?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by Mr. Arieson
                            No, I disagree. Not a stupid idea, just completely impractical!

                            If something is "completely impractical" then it is a stupid idea. If it couldn't, wouldn't, and won't work, it is a stupid idea and a masterbatory waste of time.


                            The rest of your pointless, presumptuous bullshit I didn't bother reading. Your addiction to 'guessing' and obsessive use of conditionals is tired and old. Leave that nonsense in 'imagination world' you illogical pos.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Originally posted by Mr. Arieson
                              Not very well, but how well has Bush's policy worked out? .


                              How many terrorist attacks have there been in the US since 9/11?

                              Comment

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