Do Lineage and Instructor Grades and associations really mean anything?

[SelfDefence]

Do lineage and instructor grades really mean anything? What if you have a natural born fighter who's excellent at attack, defence and teaching. Is he/she allowed to teach, probably not. Would an association take this person on, probably not, but why not? My first instructor never graded, I've never graded, I've been training in the 'martial arts' for 33 years and teaching for 22, I've got my Cert Ed, which qualifies me to teach by a university. Am I insured, YES, I can prove I can teach (properly!). I'm a natural fighter, what I teach works, we've tested it, students have tested it. Is it traditional? No, it's contemporary and adapts to individuals. Do we grade? No, what's the point, you can either fight or you can't, don't kid yourself that doing your patterns and punching the air, or pulling your punches in sparring will work, it won't. How you train is how you fight. Does lineage really matter? Simply, NO, it's what you can do that counts. Too many people want to control what happens in the martial arts, too many belt mills out there in it for profit, having trained at plenty over the years and seeing standards drop it looks like there really aren't many true martial artists left out there, the naturals that should be allowed to flourish. Any comments???

[pstevens]

Research by many martial arts organizations show that certifications really don't hold much weight in the industry. After all, it's just a piece of paper. When looking for a place to train, you're really looking for a place you can connect with on many levels. Personally, I don't care where the instructor learned his martial art as long as 3 criterion are met. They are:

1. Customer Service. Does the instructor value my time and committment? Does he give me timely evaluations, corrections, etc?...

2. Customer Satisfaction. Does the instructor deliver what he promises? Am I getting what I want out of this experience?

3. Personal Connection. Is this someone I can trust with my training and goals? Can this person coach me to reach those goals? Am I comfortable training here?

You'd be surprised at how important these factors are. For example, you could go to a very upscale gym where the instructors are well-known, but it won't do you any good if they didn't pay much attention to you. You're better off going to a place where you feel appreciated and where you're comfortable.

[Guest]

Its an interesting question.

Sometimes it doesn't matter in the slightest. My Boxing coach doesn't have a formal qualification to his name, no certification, no grade, no lineage. He did however fight over 100 amateur fights including a Commonwealth Silver medal, he fought 14 unbeaten professional bouts winning the British and European titles, and he is a very good teacher and communicator. That’s all I need to know, I couldn't care a less about the rest.

However, in some circumstances lineage can be a helpful tool in choosing a good teacher. For example, I specifically sought out the instruction of a JKD teacher because over the years I had noticed that, without exception, he produced excellent students. That to me is the measure of a good teacher, someone who consistently produces good students. So I kept coming across all of these people who were from this Instructor's lineage and they were all excellent, so I knew I wanted to train with him and anyone he has taught. In that sense I think lineage can help.

Although I don't really think paper certification is necessary or relevant in this day and age, I think a means for anyone from the general public to authenticate someone's claims is important. If I was training with someone on the basis that they were taught by people I admire, that they claimed to have reached certain levels in the art, and then I found out that was a load of bullshit I wouldn't be happy. If they are lying about that, what else are they lying about? However, with the Internet its pretty easy to check up on someone's claims, most association sites have a list of recognised instructors so its fairly easy to check. I guess certificates are a good back up if anyone ever expressed concern about being taken for a ride in the past, I've happily shown my certificates to a number of people who have asked me.

In the end it all comes down to the claims people are making. The OP came on here and openly said I'm not certified or qualified in any art, I just teach my thing and it works for me, and that’s cool. I also have trained with people who don't have a qualification or certificate to their name, but they are good teachers and I have learned from them. The problem comes when people are making fraudulent claims in order to take money from students and not offer in return the instruction that was promised. In that sense understanding someone's lineage and being able to ask for / seek confirmation of their background is a useful tool.

[LuohanFist]

It really depends on what you are looking for in an instructor.

As a recent example, one Bruce Downey, a.k.a. Tiger Claw, a.k.a. Kung Fu Man, a.k.a. Weaving Palm, has claimed many years and expertese in traditional CMA. However, when pressed for proof, he was unable to provide any. In that context, yes, traceable, confirmable lineage is important.

If no lineage is claimed, but clear martial skill is shown, then IMO, yes, lineage can take a back seat. However, if you are in the market to learn a specific style, Choy Li Fut, for example, you want to make sure your instructor isn't claiming false lineage after hours of watching a how-to dvd, and actually has solid knowlege of applications within the style (that he has tested in sparring, not in theory,) better make sure the background checks out.

That's just my 2c

[jonbey]

I think that if you have enough experience yourself to be able to spot the good from the bad, then it does not really matter. A complete novice could easily get fooled into thinking something is good, and will often not question techniques etc. However, if you have been training for a few years in just about any style, then go to another, you should be able to pretty quickly pick up on how good the instructor is. Whenever I have started a new class, I have asked lots of questions. Then just observe with a critical eye. These things (lineage, grades) are only important if the quality of the instructor in terms of knowledge, application and teaching ability are also to a high standard. Excellent martial artists can make terrible instructors, so there is certainly more to it than a good CV.