Bush good or bad?

[gregimotis]

Originally posted by Toudiyama[NL]
they somehow didn't have to comply to US law because all of a sudden it wasn't US ground anymore and the prisoners do not have to be treated as any other prisoner in the US

This administration really plays with words and thinks the people are stupid

If some inveestigating reporter finds that all contracts went to companies supporting the Bush campain, they just say it isn't true or coincidence

So, your point is that the government is corrupt....

The point of the founders of this country was that government would become corrupt by nature, and should therefore be kept weak.

My position is that the government would like to make itself stronger (or at least make me weaker) so that it can more easily act with corruption


Welcome to our side Toudi - And keep speakin' the truth!

[MuayThaiFighter]

I am shocked that this thread has 9 pages since I thought this forum was for martial artists not a political forum.

What does talking about Bush have to do with Martial Arts ?,I think think this thread should be closed.

Has everyone forgotten this is an M.A forum ?

[Toudiyama[NL]]

no we haven't forgotten this is the Open access part of the forum

[Nit]

"Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

I think the way that the modern western world operates is immoral... a bold statement which I cannot possibly justify without writing a book about it.

Some points that leap out are that firstly democracy is utilitarian and not rights based, therefore the rights or needs of the few are over whelmed by the rights or needs for the many. With utilitarianism you can justify murder, war and many other atrocities because it serves the 'needs of the many'.

We really need a morally parsiminous way in which to run our societies in conjunction with one another. And this is not forth coming due to the fact that our democracy relies on capitalism to support it.

Capitalism is a form of social control, 'worth' is based on supply and demand, if you control the resource you can control the demand, if you control the demand then you control the consumer.

Our planet has abundant resources, so for the economy to stay stable and not collapse you have to control the resource. The best way is to have the constant threat of war. With that you then use up your surplus resources for no purpose what so ever, therefore making a shortage which raises demand and therefore increases 'worth'. Also constantly preparing for war require technical innovation and a constant grinding to keep incumbant forces at a state of alertness.

If we were to scrap all our armies and focus on all the other peaceful issues then our economy would collaps due to the fact that there will be surplus, therefore no demand, therefore no worth therefore no incentive to work other than the joy of it.

I think the human race would be a lot better of it just returned back to the oceans and learn to have a laugh and eat fish all day, just like the dolphins.


This post is full of misinformation and slander, don't believe anything said in this pice of propoganda. BB

[Szczepankiewicz]

no we haven't forgotten this is the Open access part of the forum

For once I have to agree with Comrade Toudi, this is open access. Anything goes for a topic.

[choylifutrocks]

Originally posted by platinum_angel
i vote he was a very bad pres.
bush looks so happy.
the richer get richer
the poor get poorer
and the hatred grows

If you want to know why the poor get poorer, it's because stupid asses like you vote for welfare bills up the ass. Then, the rich have to pay out their 40-50% tax, cut jobs, and those morons on welfare who aren't looking for jobs never have to get educated and make a living on their own. Democrats need poor people to get elected into office. That's why they, not the big bad republicans, keep the poor people down.

Example: If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day. If you teach a man to fish, you feed him for a lifetime.

The democrats are handing out fish, instead of educations, to those poor inner city kids so that they can pick up the tiny percnetage of the votes that comes with that territory.

Did you ever wonder why liberals hate Malcolm X and why Malcolm X hated liberals? It's because they keep the "minorities" down.

Republicans may be heartless in some cases, but atleast they're honest about it.

[choylifutrocks]

Originally posted by Nit
"Absolute power corrupts absolutely"

"Power tends to corrupt; absolute power corrupts absolutely."--Lord Acton

Good quote Nit

I have to say that I'm glad that 40% of you voted that GWB is a good president, because he really is. I don't agree with all of his foreign policy, but he'll do the best he can. We're definately better off with him rather than Al Whore.

To the 30% of you that voted against GWB, you're obviously either French or you are an uneducated hippie that doesn't like government, but continually votes Democrat, which in turn expands the federal governments role in the US. Yeah, I know.......duuuuuuuuuuuuuh???? Moron, is the only word that describes people like that.

If you're french, read Alex De'Toqueville, and understand that the US ain't too bad, from the words of one of your only educated countrymen. Then go have a pepsi.

If you're a hippie...join some stupid ass cult and commit suicide.

Spanky: Outlaw war? Sounds like a great idea to me Easy to implement too! I bet the no war zone that you refer to in Europe is where Chirac meets with Saddam and Osama and does arms deals.

As far as the war goes, we didn't need to go. I can't say whether it was the best decision or not, but I do know that Saddam has been dodging 1441 for 12 years, and the UN let's him just get away with it. So the fact that we went in and remove Saddam is enough for me to support, even w/o WOMD.

*We have found everything but the actual weapons. Plans, etc.

The French and Russians made huge amounts of money selling arms to Saddam. No wonder they didn't want him gone, there goes their pocket change.

I do however believe that the US needs to review it's policy in the Middle East and start supporting Israel in a different, less biased way. This would considerably lower the terrorist activity planned against the US. If I was a palestinian, I'd be pissed too. The Israelies were given land by the US. At the time it was only 6% of what they hold now. The Jews attained the rest illegally. They moved out 700,000 pali's in the Deir Yassine Massacre. They also set up camp everywhere any outsiders live inside of their Biblical map, to push out the inhabitants. They want only Jews in Israel, and are guilty of collectively punishing the palestinians. The Licud party right now that is in charge of Israel is just as responsible for the turmoil in the middle east as the palestinians. We, the US, should not support that CRAP! We should however maintain support, just not this kind of support. This is one area where I do not support bush. Barak, Israel's PM, publicly stated that he believe they control the US. That guys an asshole!


I'm freaking tired, I can't even read what I"m writing. I'll come back and bitch about this tomorrow

[Szczepankiewicz]

And there you have it.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Alternative to Bush # 1

'And what of Al Sharpton? The scandal there is that there is no scandal. Here is a man who rose to fame on the strength of a racially motivated smear of a group of perfectly innocent police officers. The good Reverend has never acknowledged wrongdoing nor apologized. As if that were not enough, he was the provocateur who incited a race riot in Harlem that led to the torching of a clothing store and the deaths of seven people. Again, no apology.

And yet he is a respected member of the Democratic Party who has the audacity to run for president. Not only is he not denounced by his fellow candidates, they take turns buttering him up and suggesting coyly that he'd make a heck of a running mate.'

[S.Anucha]

guys simply put theres only one man I trust, Jesus Christ. Wether you believe he exists or not doesnt matter to me personally.

The human heart is decietful and naturally greedy, we are flawed heavily and to fully trust the word of another human being that is clearly bent on domination is not something I would bend towards lightly..... I trust none of them, we have a political party leader in our country who has served a prison term for cutting another mans throat and many others who are all convicted terrorists/murderers but yet they all spin their bullshit about how great they are for bringing peace and prosperity, yeah right.


I dont know much about politics but I have seen my fair share of the world, I have met a lot of normal decent people and from that I have come to a conclusion that Bush is only interested in one thing and that is the United States interests, he doesnt give a **** about the working class population just like Tony Blair doesnt give a toss either, none of them do but its mostly us idiots who believe the crap they spin us.... well I say no more, I simply aint gonna vote and will chose to wait for the inevitable... its all gonna come to boiling point some day soon and when it does I reckon we'll all be scavaging for food wondering why it all happened.

Its horrible to think that (I personnally have nothing against most people in general) most countries in general around the world loath Bush and everything he stands for, I ask myself why, have any of you ever lived in these tyranical countries he seems to feel are a threat to world safety, I personnally think he is ALSO a threat to world safety! Dont get me wrong I totally feel that Taliban and these other fanatical groups are a bunch of murderes with power and control as their main goal, guys I grew up with the same crap, just painted a different colour.


Bush is a director of a buisness, USA is that buisness. To make his buisness grow financially he must expand and take over. Oil is a good way of controling and making profit. and there are other means too.....

Herion, afghanistan is one of the worlds producers of herion.... a trip back in time tells us that the US government is well aware of the control and profits gained from indirect herion trafficing, Laos 1961-1971 I think it was.

To put it simply, Bush, along with most political leaders are scumbag buisnessmen and are not to be fully trusted and should not be allowed to do what they want. I find it hard to believe anything they ever tell us, I just feel that maybe 20 years down the road we are all gonna slap our ass and think "damn how did I fall for that crap", well if there is 20 years left of course!

Dont think I am a pessimist, I am quite happy with myself and the normal people I share company with but i am well aware of the complete mess our world is in, Bush aint making it any better for American people in general or for any of us westerners.

As for Israel, well Abraham had two sons with two different mothers, so each son had the same dad, Abraham. Ishmael and Isaac, Abrahams sons, are the Jews and Arabs, in other words this crap has been going on since day dot. Brothers they are. 1948 when Israel became a nation again..... Israel always belonged to the Jews, it was they who were kicked from that land in the first place, they are only taking back what is rightly their's.

I will say that I do not agree with uncalled for violence and mayhem.... it is the individual who fires the gun, throws the bomb and gives the orders it is not an entire nation.

The sooner Bush goes the better. the guy hasnt an ounce about terrorism or conflict, he is a blitthering idiot with lots of military might at his disposal, its as if he wants to be remembered as the most hated US president of all time.

God help us all.

[choylifutrocks]

Re: Alternative to Bush # 1

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
'And what of Al Sharpton? The scandal there is that there is no scandal. Here is a man who rose to fame on the strength of a racially motivated smear of a group of perfectly innocent police officers. The good Reverend has never acknowledged wrongdoing nor apologized. As if that were not enough, he was the provocateur who incited a race riot in Harlem that led to the torching of a clothing store and the deaths of seven people. Again, no apology.

And yet he is a respected member of the Democratic Party who has the audacity to run for president. Not only is he not denounced by his fellow candidates, they take turns buttering him up and suggesting coyly that he'd make a heck of a running mate.'

AMEN! The guy is a racist, jerk.

=======Michael Jackson, sorry to break off from thread========

Speaking of racist, did any of you hear this crap about the NAACP claiming the Michael Jackson case is another racist issue. The claim that it's "another example of the white media breaking down black America". They said they are more disgusted over this Michael Jackson case than they were about 9-11.

First of all, MJ is freaking 1/2 Marsian 1/2 Android. The dude ain't even human anymore. Out of the 5'11" 120 lbs of him, maybe 5% of that is actual human tissue / organs. (I exaggerate to make a point) so it's not because of the color that once existed under whatever shell he hides in now.

Secondly, more disgusted over this than 9-11? That shows you where their true motiviation lies. Talk about racist. 3,000 ppl die and it's sad, Michael Jackson gets accused of Child Molestation and Pedophilia for a 2nd time, and it's horrendous and the worst thing ever. I'M ABSOLUTELY FREAKING DISGUSTED!

Thirdly, at every MJ concert I've ever seen broadcast on TV, etc. he seems to have a very diverse legion of followers, none of which seem to care what race he is.

Lastly, if there is any prejudice against MJ, it's not because of his color. He is the KING OF WEIRD. That's where the prejudices lie. He is a great artist, and I personally think he's weird enough just to have kids over for "warm milk" and "cookies" for a "charming evening" and not wanna touch them. I think he could be innocent. However, I wouldn't be surprised either way. I don't think we should hang him b4 trial, but I wouldn't be shocked in the slightest if he was convicted.

[kid_chocolate]

re

Michael Jackson is not black.

[IPON]

Re: re

Originally posted by kid_chocolate
Michael Jackson is not black.

He is opaque

[kid_chocolate]

bush

Bush is as bad as any politician because he has great power and uses it to support his own personal agenda. He's good if you agree with his agenda.

Its about time that they trusted us to look after ourselves. Get rid of government altogether. All you need is a carefully limited legal system.

[choylifutrocks]

Re: bush

Originally posted by kid_chocolate
All you need is a carefully limited legal system.

Very limited government was the intention of the American constitution, which has been totally screwed over by Judicial Review and Hippies

(that face and that finger were not aimed at anyone, except hippies and hippie judges)