defence against a dog attack

[yentao]

Hello can anyone give advise on what to do if a dog is aproaching you and its about to atack. is it posible to fight a dog with any form of martial arts or are you going to get ripped to pieces no matter what u do .

has any one had expeareance of warding off a dog in a reall atackif so how do you stop it . would a heavy walking stick stop it if used with stick fighting methods if so which which is best and do you have to kill the dog

how close do you let the dog get before you lash out

Dog can sense fear so just don't look at it. But if it was too late.....

If these happened to the streets (cement floor), run (sprint) as fast as you can and jump slide around facing 45degrees the sliding dog. Then when it slides, kick its nose or step hard on its head, then it will run. If it run, go get something to hit the bull shit because it will get back to you.

If your in a soil ground then, (dogs like to bite limbs and the ankle anything bony) try to keep jumping toward it ( to scare it) *ensure that you raise your feet when jumping (JOKE:jumping monkey style) and shout for help...

[Maxetai]

Well the way that i was taught the hook kick is essensially a overshot sidekick, in and then the leg hooks around. Well using the hook kick that i know i would have to say it would be very easy for the dog to bite your lower legs.

Not If you snap it!

[William]

First. Don't run unless the dog has already started charging you. If you do, you'll likely set it after you. Prey drive/instinct. You will most likely incite it to chase you down. If it does start to chase you, jump up onto a parked car or anything else you can get out of reach on. One thing that I have used successfully if the dog is coming at me, is to immediately charge the dog growling and yelling holding my arms up in the air to make myself look bigger than I am. A dog that is used to chasing things down all of a sudden has something coming after them. Now, I have to preface that by saying that I am quite a bit larger than your average person so that is an added benefit for me (meaning, try it at your own risk). I have grown up with dogs and have dogs of my own so I'm pretty good at being able to read them. If you can't get away and the dog is attacking, the thing to remember is that a dog will usually go for the first appendage that is presented to them or the first thing they see moving (again, not a good idea to run unless the dog has already charged). That's why some dogs will go for your feet (smaller dogs) if you start to back-peddle or try to turn and run. Larger dogs may go for the arms or body. That in no way means that a dog won't go for your neck, but generally most domesticated dogs don't act on that instinct unless they have already taken down game that way.

One possibility is to "offer" the dog a forearm as the dog runs up, just as he starts to move up for the arm, pull back and straight knee him in the head/chest. Basically bait and switch. The dog is focusing on the arm, smash him with the knee. Now I have to preface that by saying that I have MT training and can throw them with accuracy an power. If that doesn't drop him, it's certainly going to hurt like hell and make him think twice about trying again. With my own dogs using the bait & switch is very successful. My Mastiff is a big boy (just over 200 lbs.)and he likes to latch on (bite probably at about 20%) when we play fight. He is doing the same thing he would do if he were attacking, just at a lower intensity. As he comes running up I'll extend my left arm toward him but to the right of his head, as he starts to go for it and I immediately pull back my left and shoot my right behind his head to grab his scruff and simultaneously push down and side-step to the right, throw my right leg over his body. Now I have him pinned between my legs and I control his head. Still holding his scruff with my right, I reach down with my left to grab his left front leg, and down he goes.

As far as sticks, staffs etc.. Some dogs they will work on, some they won't. Pitbulls, and AM Staffordshire Terriers, American Bull Dogs all have an extremely high tolerance for pain, are very muscular, and have very thick bone densities. Put those all together and you have an animal that can take a lot. I have read of incidents, and seen video footage of people beating them with a baseball bat and the dog still went for the person and wouldn't let go after it got a hold of them. My shop is in an area that has a number of Pitbulls and a high number of drug dealers and irresponsible owners in the area. You will quite often see them running loose. I have pondered the question many times. If I can't get away, I always carry a couple of "tools" that I can deploy in less than a second, and I will use them as a last resort. Not saying I couldn't get bit, it would just be the last time they ever did it.

Don't get down on the ground if they are charging. You aren't going to be able to grab their legs and pull them out if you don't have control first. In order for you to reach and grab both legs, your presenting your head/face to them. Many large dogs have a longer neck than you do. It's a good way to get your face taken off.

As a side note:
Pitbulls, AM Staffordshire Terriers and other Bully breeds really do get a bad rap. The breed themselves are very devoted family dogs, especially to children. It's just irresponsible owners, and dumbass drug dealers who train them to be that way. Back in the 1800's when they were bred for fighting, they were also bred to be docile to people. The handlers needed to be able to go in and take them out of the fight with out the dog turning on them. Any dog that bit the handler/owner was immediately taken out of breeding (and usually put down). They developed them to have a high prey drive toward animals not people, which is why for the most part, you can't have them with other animals (there are exceptions). They were the most common family dogs in the early part of the century in the U.S.

Here is my boy. To give you a perspective, that's my size 15 foot next to his head.

William

[William]

Off the dog topic for a moment.

if it started cracking for no seamingly no real reason it is probally because of a lack of oils in it.

If you want to condition the wood so it doesn't check (split), treat it with
linseed oil. A varnish or polyurethane will usually start to crack after you
whack a few things with it. Put some linseed on a rag and rub it in, let it
sit for a while and then wipe it off. If I remember correctly it goes
something like:

Apply it:
Once a day for a week.
Then
Once a week for a month.
Then
Once a month for a year.

A good friend of mine made me a walking stick (really more of a Ball Club)
with a big solid brass knob for a handle. He treated it this way before he
gave it to me. I've had it for a few years now with no checking at all. The
wood retains the oils and doesn't get brittle. Just hit it once a month to
keep it good.

If you want good staff material, try Purple Heart. A very, very strong wood.
There is an Exotic Hardwood shop in Portland, Oregon that is owned by a guy
who is also into martial arts. I know they made Purple Heart staffs. I think
they were octagon shaped.
Also, The guy claimed that Vera (sp?) wood would make excellent Kali/Eskrima
sticks. He said something about the fibers weaving together as it grew made
it very strong.....of course it was also VERY expensive.

BTW, if you buy Purple heart and try to cut down or sand it, wear a
respirator, the dust can be toxic to breath in.

William

[William]

I do agree that there are some nice pitbulls, but many of them are fundumentally vicious.

No more so than any other breed. Percentage wise they account for fewer bites than many other breeds. I think the Dalmation topped the list last year for the most biting incidents. PB's tend to attract much more press for an attack than any other breed.

http://www.badrap.org/rescue/

Anyways after thinking about it linseed oil or tung oil probally would be better. Anyways what i was adressing was already cracking wood and filling the cracks in a cosmetically pleasing wood

Nothing wrong with that. I just tend to lean toward functionality over cosmetics.

William

[William]

I’m talking percentages/ratios.

http://www.cdc.gov/ncipc/duip/dog3.pdf

http://www.thedogplace.com/library/articles156.htm

The Centers for Disease Control study dog bite incidents, including the types of dogs most likely to bite. The breeds that the CDC considers highest risk are pit bulls, Rottweilers, German shepherds, huskies, Alaskan malamutes, Doberman pinschers, chows, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Akitas.

Again...

There are social trends towards training and keeping dangerous animals by inexperienced owners. Aggressive guard dogs are trained for self-protection. While any dog can bite, the top biting breeds include:
* Pit Bulls
* Rottweilers
* German Shepherds
* Huskies
* Doberman Pinschers
* Chow Chows
The increase in population of large dogs has resulted in an increased severity of bites. German shepherds were identified as the breed involved in 44% of all bite cases but accounted for only 22% of license registrations. Small purebred dogs accounted for less than 20% of bites but more than 40% of registrations.

If these statistics are correct, German Shepherds and small purebred dogs account for roughly 64% of biting incidents, with the remaining 36% split between Pit Bulls, Rottweilers, Huskies (encompassing a number of breeds), Dobermans, Akitas, Great Danes, St. Bernards and Chow Chows.
I’ll grant you that if a Pit bull type is to viscously attack, the victim is likely to be mauled worse than other breeds. Pit bulls and Rottweilers top the list for fatal attacks. Incidentally, the majority of those attacks come in or near urban areas where there is a higher incidence of poverty, crime, drugs etc…and unfortunately a higher incidence of irresponsible owners, breeders and drug dealers who use them for fighting, protection and for the “tough” guy image.

Although pit bull mixes and Rottweillers are most likely to kill and seriously maim, fatal attacks since 1975 have been attributed to dogs from at least 30 breeds.
The most horrifying example of the lack of breed predictability is the October 2000 death of a 6-week-old baby, which was killed by her family's Pomeranian dog. The average weight of a Pomeranian is about 4 pounds, and they are not thought of as a dangerous breed. Note, however, that they were bred to be watchdogs! The baby's uncle left the infant and the dog on a bed while the uncle prepared her bottle in the kitchen. Upon his return, the dog was mauling the baby, who died shortly afterwards. ("Baby Girl Killed by Family Dog," Los Angeles Times, Monday, October 9, 2000, Home Edition, Metro Section, Page B-5.)
In all fairness, therefore, it must be noted that: ·
Any dog, treated harshly or trained to attack, may bite a person.

Any dog can be turned into a dangerous dog. The owner most often is responsible -- not the breed, and not the dog.

An irresponsible owner or dog handler might create a situation that places another person in danger by a dog, without the dog itself being dangerous, as in the case of the Pomeranian that killed the infant (see above).

Any individual dog may be a good, loving pet, even though its breed is considered to be likely to bite. A responsible owner can win the love and respect of a dog, no matter its breed. One cannot look at an individual dog, recognize its breed, and then state whether or not it is going to attack.

Another problem is determining which dogs are indeed dangerous.
"The primary difficulty in determining which breeds are most dangerous has to do with the floating numerator (ie, numerator floating without its denominator). It is important that we know not only the percentage of bites from a given breed but also the total number of that breed in the general canine population and the amount of time the dog spends around humans. Such denominator data are unavailable." (James R. Blackman, M.D., J Am Board Fam Pract 11(2):167-169, 1998.)

Court cases generally acknowledge that dogs are dangerous because they are used to create danger, not necessarily because they are inherently dangerous.
For example, in People v. Nealis (1991) 232 Cal.App.3d Supp. 1, the dog was commanded to attack, so the court held that the dog was a deadly weapon.

In People v. Henderson (1999) 1999 Daily Journal D.A.R. 11862, pit bulls were used to threaten police, so the court held that the dogs were deadly weapons, not necessarily because of their breed, but because the defendant was using them as such.

As stated before, irresponsible owners, breeders and drug dealers are the ones who create the problem, not the breed themselves. A properly socialized Pit Bull is more likely to be a loving couch potato than a viscous attack dog. Almost any large breed can be taught to be viscous. Mastiffs are known to be gentle giants that are great with children, yet two killed a woman in a hallway in San Francisco a few years ago. That incident showed that it was training, not the breed that caused the attack.
Don’t misunderstand me. I’m not saying that Pit bulls will never attack. They can and they do when they have been trained to do so, or are the result of faulty back-yard breeding by breeders who try to cross them with other breeds to make them bigger and stronger. You sometimes get unreliable temprements. In my opinion, any breed that has attacked un-provoked should be put down. All I am saying is that they aren’t a loaded gun walking around waiting to go off. A properly bred and socialized breed of dog is no more likely to attack than any other breed. The problem starts when a certain breed becomes popular with the wrong “type” of owners.

I thought I had read that Dalmations had the highest incidence of biting. Turns out it was German Shepards. I'll also point out that statistics vary from source to source. Even within the CDC. Bottom line is, nobody really knows the true numbers of biting incidents per year, let alone breed specific bites. There are just too many that go unreported.

William

[William]

Back to the original post...

Now getting back to Maureen's original question.

A couple of tips:

Never approach an unfamiliar dog, especially one who is tied or confined behind a fence or inside a car.

Never run away from a dog and scream. The dog's natural instinct is to chase. You should remain motionless, with your hands at your sides, and avoid eye contact with the dog. Don't speak to the dog. The dog will most likely lose interest in you and retreat. You should also use this technique when you are approached by an unfamiliar dog.

If knocked over by a dog, roll into a ball, keep quiet, and don't look at the dog. The dog will most likely lose interest and retreat. (I would add...cover your neck)

Always avoid direct eye contact with a dog

Report stray dogs or dogs who are displaying unusual behavior to animal control authorities.

Never disturb a dog who is sleeping, eating, or tending to puppies.

Before petting a dog, let the dog see and sniff you first.

Always assume that a dog who doesn't know you may see you as a threat.



William

[William]

Overall good advice but should you roll up in a ball if the dog is attempting to maul you? Pearsonally i would say it would be better start slashing them with a knife. Well it depends on the dog.

Just general advice for the average Joe/Jane Doe that I got from a dog site. I added my own bit about covering your neck.

Not really what I would do, I already posted on that. And yes, as I stated earlier, I would go to my "tools" (blades) if I couldn't get out of it's reach.


William

[Brak86]

JKD monkey- im sure u wont get so luckty next time no offense to u at all...im sure u are an awesome MA....but a ferocious dog is not one to be messed with. I would never mess with a dog if i could escape...

[bvermillion]

I would fight a dog in the same manner as a human. It hurts when they are punched and kicked just as well.

[jg22072]

hit the nose!

just like humans, dogs have extra bloodvessels and thiner membranes and and thickmore dense capillaries in the nose. just like humans, it increases sensitivity, why do you think we smell with our nose and not out ears.

like wise, if a do for examplw pit bull. has a bite hold, it is very hard to get it to let go, almost any dog for that fact. you can try to hit it, water, or pull it, but if you tap it on its nose, it starts to shake its head as in " what the hell: than starts to sneeze and back up....

if a pit bull has a lock jaw on another dog, we use pepper and blow it in the dogs nose, then it automatically releases.

so go for the nose, or if it jumps and lunges at you and tries to bite you, punch it in the nose as hard as you can or force your punch into the dogs throat as deep as you can get it if a dog opens its mouth too wide it shuts off its trachea, that is why a dog chomps at food, so it can breathe and eat at the same time.

j

[William]

just like humans, dogs have extra bloodvessels and thiner membranes and and thickmore dense capillaries in the nose. just like humans, it increases sensitivity, why do you think we smell with our nose and not out ears.

True, a dog's sense of smell is hundreds of times more sensitive than humans.

like wise, if a do for examplw pit bull. has a bite hold, it is very hard to get it to let go, almost any dog for that fact. you can try to hit it, water, or pull it, but if you tap it on its nose, it starts to shake its head as in " what the hell: than starts to sneeze and back up....

If it were that easy to get a Pit to let go once they bite, then people wouldn't need to use a "Break Stick". Any breeder or responsible owner of a Pit carries a "break stick" to work/pry the jaw open. Pit's jaws don't lock, they just have extremly powerful jaws and their bite and hold response is very high. Since they also have a very high threshold for pain they will hold on for all they are worth. A tap on the nose isn't going to do squat to get them to let go.

http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

if a pit bull has a lock jaw on another dog, we use pepper and blow it in the dogs nose, then it automatically releases.

Don't know if it works. Never heard of it being done. But again, most people don't walk around carrying pepper in their pocket. Pepper spray...more likely.


William

[mattmo]

Dogs

I worked as temp as a postal worker and they gave us some kind of pepper spray. I never had to use it, and was personaly only attacked twice by little mutt/mongrel lap dogs, more annoying that anything else. I would imagine a chemical restraint would be far more effective than any method of striking.

My brother-in-law had a 120 lb american bulldog with some serious aggression problems when it came to other dogs. When his dog latched on to another he would resort to to grabbing his dog by the collar and punching it full force in the back of the head,.....this of course did not nothing to the dog and just ended up really messing up his hand. Totally ineffective. I was with him on one occasion when his dog had latched on to a german shepard and nothing seemed to work, he punched his dog, we tried a stick to pry open the mouth. Eventually I had him grab the other dog while I choked his dog from behind, it worked. His dog hacked and released just long enough for my brother to pull the other dog outta his mouth. I only applied the choke for a second max...this would obviously only work if you had two people cooperating to break up a dog fight.

interested to know what other dog people thought

Matt

[William]

I think I posted previously that most of the "Bully" breeds have a very high drive for the bite and hold. They almost get into a trance like state and getting them to let go is very difficult. Especially when they start shaking their heads and tugging while they have the bite on. The break stick has been used for decades as a way to get the jaws to open up. You don't pry with it, it's thick on one end and tapers to a blunt point on the other. You insert it into the gap in the jaw behind the back teeth. As you push, you twist it like a motorcycle throttle. It gradually forces the jaw open and prevents the dog from biting down. If you follow the link, it talks about splitting up a fight, two person and if there is only one person.

http://www.pbrc.net/breaksticks.html

Pepper spray might be effective at keeping the dog off of you, but if it is anything like humans, some are effected more than others. I know they have some that is supposed to work on Bears so I'd think they would likely have a good effect on Dogs.

William

[guy incognito]

guy incognito

If you must kill the dog to save your life do it.This can be done in several ways.One method ive heard of is to grab the front legs and reef them apart.Apparantly compresse the ribs and stops the heart.Might want to look into it though.