Most useless Martial Arts styles

[mellow]

Just a light response nothing serious concerning somebodies opinion of karate in a fight. You are assuming the karate practitioner is in some sort of cage match or similar brawling situation. Most effective technique in karate is gouging the eyes. It's in every style of karate I am familiar with. The US military teaches you to gouge eyes during your first basic training in hand to hand. IE it must be effective. Street brawling for you young bucks seems to be a peeing contest. I am 40, take care of 7 children and 2 special needs people. I am confident if I needed to use shorin ryu to defend myself against a brawler I can and have taken even the younger guys down with a simple flick to the eyes. If you are gonna compare MMA type brawling to a real street fight you can use MMA and I will take a simple baseball bat. See how effective it is after 1 blow to the head.

"It is the soldier who above all else prays for peace. For it is they who know the true horrors of war."

yeah I'm still an old coot learning how to use the forums but that is the quote I want to use in my signature.

So you're saying that Karate is totally useless without eye gouging? Why not just train eye gouging and stop wasting your time with all the other techniques?

[TigerClaw]

Your opinion is based on speculation and faith...

Not to disparage YOU personally but your kung-fu is simply DOGMA until you actually USE it as you claim...Without "PROOF" all you have is a theory, a concept, an OPINION and your faith in Kung=Fu..

I must say somethings here. I dont need to prove Kung Fu is effective. There are volumes in history about that. Kung Fu has centuries of application in combat and war. It is not hard to find history of the effectivenss of Kung Fu. Even one of my styles famous men, fought of 30 men in combat apparently. I know that siome of the stories ogf Shaolin Monks fighting tyrants and many men at a time, may have some fabrication. But some of them may not.

But some may denyt the history and past and not realize where many Kung Fu styles originated from. They can deny all they want, but that doesn't change the history.

I believe that martial artist should seriously consider fighting methods that are in Kung Fu even for the reason that they have had centuries of develpoment and application. I, by the way consider learning from all styles where there is a long histroy and proven techniques over centuries, that can be Kung Fu, (which I prefer), or Ninjitsu, or Jujitsu etc.

[gracilva]

e....e....excellent driiiiver.

[TigerClaw]

Very good driver, yeah, yeah, very good driver.

More porky pig stuttering it seems.

[Tant01]

Show me?

I must say somethings here. I dont need to prove Kung Fu is effective. There are volumes in history about that. Kung Fu has centuries of application in combat and war. It is not hard to find history of the effectivenss of Kung Fu. Even one of my styles famous men, fought of 30 men in combat apparently. I know that siome of the stories ogf Shaolin Monks fighting tyrants and many men at a time, may have some fabrication. But some of them may not.
But some may denyt the history and past and not realize where many Kung Fu styles originated from. They can deny all they want, but that doesn't change the history.

I believe that martial artist should seriously consider fighting methods that are in Kung Fu even for the reason that they have had centuries of develpoment and application. I, by the way consider learning from all styles where there is a long histroy and proven techniques over centuries, that can be Kung Fu, (which I prefer), or Ninjitsu, or Jujitsu etc.

Pardon my ignorance but what army are these kung-fu warriors in?

Since the weapons of war have changed over the centuries perhaps I'm in need of a history lesson?

Thanks...

[Toudiyama]

Having done Karate ( Wado and Ashihara) TKD(ITF) MT/dutch styleKickboxing and MMA, I have to conclude none Good at selfdefence certainly not when done 2-4 hours a week
fact that things works more then a century ago doesn't mean shite
Also some of you guys aren't very hounest, for instance Karate is no good because of walking up and down punching air and Kata yet Kyokushin is considered good whlie they do exactly the same
It is obvious that anything not full contact without protection is considered crap
If you are into MA soley for Selfdefence reasons you are waisting your time
It is going to take a shitload of training hours to even become a good competetive fighter which has little to do with selfdefence, you know when you will be competing but not when you will be in a SD situation
Also you can't compare a GSP to someone training 2x a week for 1 or 2 hours

but hey yhat all just my opinion, you are free to think otherwise

[TigerClaw]

If you are into MA soley for Selfdefence reasons you are waisting your time
It is going to take a shitload of training hours to even become a good competetive fighter which has little to do with selfdefence, you know when you will be competing but not when you will be in a SD situation...

I have done my share of hard sparring for many years and we do apply the techniques in training. Often we would be bloody and wounded. But the purpose of learning such full contact sparring and aggressive ground fighting is for SELF DEFENSE. There is another kind of sparring that is also done, that is two man sparring in forms.Also many application drills techniques help develope speed, strength, stances, timing, power, coordination, etc etc etc etcetc., These are all for SELF DEFENSE, not competition in a MMA ring with rules and sport and for vain glory and ego.

There are two reasons to take martial arts, (besides the health benefits).

They are,

1. For self defense and helping others.

2. For sport competition

Both are different in applications and reality.

I would say, if a person s taking sport competition fighting, they are almost watsing their time. Real life, survival combat, is different than sport fighting with gloves, rules and countless restrictions etc.

Real life survival combat as found in many Chinese Kung Fu styles is designed for actual fighting in combat and for life and death situations. And as far as us just hitting the air, that is not what a Kung Fu form is for. To say this, shows little understanding of Chinese Kung Fu. Forms are for many things besides body memory, developing reflexes, timing, speed, balance, memory of techniques etc etc etc etc etc. We also do two man sparring forms at different speeds and aggression. They are just like combat except we pull the techniques and they are very useful.

Remember in full contact sparring Kung Fu fighters need to PULL their techniques ( Or hold back from using full power). This is obvious, because some of the techniques are strikes to the eyes, groin, joints, spine, back of the head, throat nerve endings, etc etc etc.

Kung Fu is far more dangerous in reality than SPORT fighting and it is designed for survival combat.

If a person was going to learn either Kung Fu , or MMA style SPORT fighting for the ring and wear gloves and be forbidden to use certain techniques. I would say the Kung Fu fighting for self defense, survival combat, would be far more useful in reality.

So it seems that the truth is exactly the opposite of what you said.

[JadeDragon]

Most useless style: TKD

Second most useless style: Capeira (sp?)

Third most useles style: French Sivate

[Clubber Lang]

If my Rain Man quotes are being deleted, then I may as well take 5 mins out of my day to answer this constant stream of utter garbage I see you write time and time again.

if a person s taking sport competition fighting, they are almost watsing their time. Real life, survival combat, is different than sport fighting with gloves, rules and countless restrictions etc.

I worked as a doorman for over six years. In that time, myself and the teams I worked with encountered "real life combat" on countless hundreds of occassions. As I think I have posted here before, across all of the three teams I worked in, the arts in which the guys trained were Boxing, Judo and Muay Thai. Those are all sports. They are sports that saved my neck, and those of my colleagues, many many times over many years. They gave us the tools, attributes, and conditioning to perform in our jobs - the rest you learn through experience. So I say to you, from my experience and that of many others who have performed this role on the front line of violence, that you are talking complete bullshit.

Let it go.

Some of the techniques are strikes to the eyes, groin, joints, spine, back of the head, throat nerve endings, etc etc etc. Kung Fu is far more dangerous in reality than SPORT fighting and it is designed for survival combat.

Horseshit. I've lost count of how many Bruce Lee types we encountered on the pavement, who tried all their Kung Fu on us, and it was a joke. I have had guys pull stances on me, tried to trap my hands, kick my knee, wrench my arm, chop my throat, finger jab my eyes.......and all of them dropped just the same as everyone else. Those are fine motor skill techniques that work against a compliant training partner, as part of a demonstration, in your Kwoon. They turn to shit and mean nothing when your body is in adrenal surge and is faced with an aggressive, determined, resisting opponent. In every instance when someone tried their Jet Li shit, it came a very sorry second to simple blunt force trauma. A hard right hand to the jaw, a kick like a baseball bat, or slamming someone onto the pavement - thats what stops people. So no, Kung Fu isn't more deadly in reality, its worth **** all in my experience, and you are talking complete bullshit.

Let it go.

So it seems that the truth is exactly the opposite of what you said.

No, the truth is the exact opposite of what you say, and I'm tired of reading it over and over again right across the board. You know nothing, and do an even worse job of trying to convince people that you do. Its embarassing, and for your own sake you should just go somewhere else. Or better still, sell your computer, buy some boxing gloves, and go learn how to fight.

[sunwukung]

Spot on post Clubber Lang!

[Tant01]

Thank you

If my Rain Man quotes are being deleted, then I may as well take 5 mins out of my day to answer this constant stream of utter garbage I see you write time and time again.



I worked as a doorman for over six years. In that time, myself and the teams I worked with encountered "real life combat" on countless hundreds of occassions. As I think I have posted here before, across all of the three teams I worked in, the arts in which the guys trained were Boxing, Judo and Muay Thai. Those are all sports. They are sports that saved my neck, and those of my colleagues, many many times over many years. They gave us the tools, attributes, and conditioning to perform in our jobs - the rest you learn through experience. So I say to you, from my experience and that of many others who have performed this role on the front line of violence, that you are talking complete bullshit.

Let it go.




Horseshit. I've lost count of how many Bruce Lee types we encountered on the pavement, who tried all their Kung Fu on us, and it was a joke. I have had guys pull stances on me, tried to trap my hands, kick my knee, wrench my arm, chop my throat, finger jab my eyes.......and all of them dropped just the same as everyone else. Those are fine motor skill techniques that work against a compliant training partner, as part of a demonstration, in your Kwoon. They turn to shit and mean nothing when your body is in adrenal surge and is faced with an aggressive, determined, resisting opponent. In every instance when someone tried their Jet Li shit, it came a very sorry second to simple blunt force trauma. A hard right hand to the jaw, a kick like a baseball bat, or slamming someone onto the pavement - thats what stops people. So no, Kung Fu isn't more deadly in reality, its worth **** all in my experience, and you are talking complete bullshit.

Let it go.




No, the truth is the exact opposite of what you say, and I'm tired of reading it over and over again right across the board. You know nothing, and do an even worse job of trying to convince people that you do. Its embarassing, and for your own sake you should just go somewhere else. Or better still, sell your computer, buy some boxing gloves, and go learn how to fight.

....... Good on you.

[-FIGJAM-]

i find it interesting to see the people's opinions in this thread. Only read the first few pages and the last... Have to say alot of the people here are blind by ignorance on their preferred fighting style.

Its hard to say what is good in a street fight, because when you train, you dont train against multiple attackers with knives, chairs, bottles, etc, you train against people of the same technique. 9/10 you are going to face people who know what you know. So hard to say what the most effective training is.

We can go back in history and look at why the MA were developed, what they stood for, who used them etc, but as others have said, that was then this is now. Kung Fu, was a good self defense back in the day. I agree, what it shows can help and will if you are fighting a reject want to be tough guy.
Sivate was developed to fight street thugs in France people. Against people with knives and so forth, so stop saying that it is useless, they train and fight in some cases with steel cap shoes, that's hardcore.
MT competitors only score points if their blows hurt the opponent. Keep that in mind. But you are not in competition you are on the street. I have read a fair few articles and so on that all say MT is the best stand up self defense MA style in the world because of what you are trained to use - The 8 Limbs.

In my opinion the worst streetfight self defense is anything that uses too much grappling like Pancration (which i study). The most effective is one that can end a fight quickly as Clubber said. Something with power, speed and is simple, like MT.

My 2cents

[Tant01]

Most useless style: TKD

Second most useless style: Capeira (sp?)

Third most useles style: French Sivate

Has anyone said the most useless styles have to be the ones I've NEVER studied...

Kinda like the fancy hunting rifle in the closet that's never killed anything...

[TigerClaw]

Clubber lang said in his post post,

"I worked as a doorman for over six years. In that time, myself and the teams I worked with encountered "real life combat.....I've lost count of how many Bruce Lee types we encountered on the pavement, who tried all their Kung Fu on us, and it was a joke. I have had guys pull stances on me, tried to trap my hands, kick my knee, wrench my arm, chop my throat, finger jab my eyes.......and all of them dropped just the same as everyone else. Those are fine motor skill techniques that work against a compliant training partner, as part of a demonstration, in your Kwoon. They turn to shit and mean nothing when your body is in adrenal surge and is faced with an aggressive, determined, resisting opponent. In every instance when someone tried their Jet Li shit, it came a very sorry second to simple blunt force trauma. A hard right hand to the jaw, a kick like a baseball bat, or slamming someone onto the pavement - thats what stops people. So no, Kung Fu isn't more deadly in reality, its worth **** all in my experience, and you are talking complete bullshit.


You are very wrong. And the few so called Kung Fu fighters that you thought were Kung Fu fighters, most likely weren't . Kung Fu has been around for a long, long time, and been used in many real life combat situations, and life and death situations in the past and all through history. You couldn't be more wrong.

You said you worked as a doorman. Most likely the kind of people that got into fights where you worked were drunk , (which would mean they are not focused or disciplined), and the kind of Kung Fu fighters I talk of do not get into drunken bar scraps. It is not that hard to overcome any martial artist when they are drunk, assuming that some of them were. But most likely you have only met a handful of so called Kung Fu fighters, who may have taken a class here or there, or who were just posers and had no martial skill at all.. I am not talking about a man who tries to take a stance and has no idea what he is doing.


In my training and in many other schools, there was non compliant hard sparring and we go hurt at times on hard floors, with bloody faces and smashed everywhere. You really are using a large brush and have no real idea what you are talking about. To say the fights you see as a doorman represent the quality of Kung Fu masters worldwide is very weak and not a good representation of Kung Fu.

Like I said, if you were a doorman and had to fight others, they were most likely drunk and in no condition to fight at all, and they most likely had no Kung Fu experience or real training at all. I am curious if you ever asked them what training they had. To see a man take a stance and some hand positioning, does not mean they were Kung Fu fighters. There are so many more westernized martial arts out there that have nothing to do with Kung Fu that many have been involved in, real Kung Fu is more rare in the Western society.. I believe you are very wrong and unfair in your judgement and most likely have never even fought a real kung fu master.

Most likely you have had a few scraps kicking drunken men out who may have taken some pathetic stance and had no real skill at all, or they may have jumped around like a kick boxer.

Remember when I speak of Kung Fu practitioners, I speak of the persons who have studied it long enougfh to make it work for them in combat. A bar brawler who gets drunk and kicked out of a club etc, is not the person I am speaking of. Most lower level martial artist with minimal experience in many styles could overcome a drunk brawler.

And most drunken brawlers don't know how to do proper techniques or vital strike attacks etc.
But if you really understood my basic premise about Kung Fu as opposed to sport fighting in the ring and on TV. I was saying that Kung Fu can not be fully expressed in such a sport environment.

And by the way all the techniques you said that the so called "kung Fu guys" tried on your and didn't work. I first of all doubt your sincerity there, and secondly, all those techniques done right would stop you and maime you if done correctly by a real Kung Fu master. Yes, if they are done by some undisciplined man who knows nothing about kung fu and is drunk, they will be useless.

Your whole argument is questioneable and you have no facts presented. You cannot prove that the so called Bruce lee types were in fact Kung Fu fighters with many years experience, and you cannt prove that they even knew Kung Fu. Since your training did not specify Kung Fu, You are unqualified to judge if they were in fact using real Kung Fu. Many wannabees may try in a drunken stupper to immitate Bruce Lee etc. But that has nothing to do with a real Kung Fu master or those who have disciplined their fighting skills.

I am sure you could just as easily said that you met some who had Boxing experience and they went to the pavement, or Mauy thai, or Judo etc and they went to the pavement.

Your argument is meaningless.

[jubaji]

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