what good can a handgun do against an army?

[BoarSpear]

I was torn a little over where to post this link...in the "Just bitchin" thread started by garland or here...then i remembered the oath i took...to protect against ALL enemies foreign and DOMESTIC and it seemed this is where it belonged...

[Sagacious Lu]

That's a very intereting article.

[BoarSpear]

Glad you liked it SL...at least someone read it...10 months later one comment, perhaps this isnt the place to post...

[gregimotis]

Glad you liked it SL...at least someone read it...10 months later one comment, perhaps this isnt the place to post...

I read it. It reads like most anti-gov. articles fo... High on fiery quotes and historic injustice, lots of vague references to 'the current regime', low on meaningful current events.

Lots of emotions, no real argument. It's choir preaching, in other words. If you (you being anybody writing this sort of article) want to convince people that there is a danger, your going to have to come up with a consistent chain of events and reasoning which strings them together.

An example of not providing that: The article refers several times to the 'Clintonistas' as the bad guys. The clintons are gone from office, so it follows that via the reasoning in the article the danger is now past... right?

[BoarSpear]

I read it. It reads like most anti-gov. articles fo... High on fiery quotes and historic injustice, lots of vague references to 'the current regime', low on meaningful current events.

Lots of emotions, no real argument. It's choir preaching, in other words. If you (you being anybody writing this sort of article) want to convince people that there is a danger, your going to have to come up with a consistent chain of events and reasoning which strings them together.

An example of not providing that: The article refers several times to the 'Clintonistas' as the bad guys. The clintons are gone from office, so it follows mistakes that go oil executives pockets this is all silly, and no way Hillary is gthat via the reasoning in the article the danger is now past... right?

yeah in a country that doesnt torture, or use illegal wiretapping, or make 10 billion dollar "mistakes" in legally binding contracts that wind up in oil company executives pockets...And Hillary isnt going to run for president right?

[Sagacious Lu]

This reminded me of a conversation I had with a police sergeant who was trying to explain to me why the fact that citizens could own fire arms- even small ones- was a deterrent to military action against the citizens by their own country. I couldn't see how a bunch of hand guns and hunting rifles would make a difference against the fire power the military has, and he wasn't very good at explaining it. I remember thinking that he had a point somewhere, but he just wasn't making it very clearly. This article broke it down nicely.

Lots of emotions, no real argument. It's choir preaching, in other words. If you (you being anybody writing this sort of article) want to convince people that there is a danger, your going to have to come up with a consistent chain of events and reasoning which strings them together.

I'm not terribly impressed by the author's take on Clinton and co. and I probably wouldn't agree with a lot of his political views, but he does do a good job of answering the question "what good can a handgun do against an army". He clearly shows that it causes a host of tactical and strategic issues. Personally I think the current administration is even more disturbing than Clinton's, but I also think the idea of American's fighting against their own military is - at this time- just a bunch of far fetched distopian fiction. That doesn't mean it will always be that way though, remember Rome was a republic before it was an empire.

[gregimotis]

This article broke it down nicely.

Yes, I'd agree with that

Personally I think the current administration is even more disturbing than Clinton's, but I also think the idea of American's fighting against their own military is - at this time- just a bunch of far fetched distopian fiction. That doesn't mean it will always be that way though....

And all of that too.

[BoarSpear]

but I also think the idea of American's fighting against their own military is - at this time- just a bunch of far fetched distopian fiction.

Yeah the US military has never been used on American civilians, wait thats not true, okay they were never told to fire on unarmed US citizens, wait thats not true, okay they only fired on (and killed) unarmed US citizens once, wait thats not true either. Well our leaders today are much better Christians and leaders than those of the past and certainly with all the new powers they have they wont shoot any more of us who protest. I mean cmon Mr Bush even set up special "freedom of speech zones to protect us ....

Those who dont study the history of the nation in which they live might be surprised at the things we have already happened here.

James G. Randall documented Lincoln’s assault on the Constitution in Constitutional Problems Under Lincoln. Lincoln unconstitutionally suspended the writ of Habeas Corpus and had the military arrest tens of thousands of Northern political opponents, including dozens of newspaper editors and owners. Some 300 newspapers were shut down and all telegraph communication was censored. Northern elections were rigged; Democratic voters were intimidated by federal soldiers; hundreds of New York City draft protesters were gunned down by federal troops; West Virginia was unconstitutionally carved out of Virginia; and the most outspoken member of the Democratic Party opposition, Congressman Clement L. Vallandigham of Ohio, was deported. Duly elected members of the Maryland legislature were imprisoned, as was the mayor of Baltimore and Congressman Henry May. The border states were systematically disarmed in violation of the Second Amendment and private property was confiscated. Lincoln’s apologists say he had “to destroy the Constitution in order to save it.” hmmm I bet we hear that sound bite again sooner than you think.

[Sagacious Lu]

There have been plenty of abuses in the past, and I'm sure there are abuses now. The more closely you look at the Branch Davidian incident in Waco the shadier the govt. forces start to look. Then again I don't think it's possible to have a country this big without having a certain amount of dirty laundry. Sure, something ugly can happen at any time but I certainly don't see a coup attempt coming any time soon.

[knifethrower]

Glad you liked it SL...at least someone read it...10 months later one comment, perhaps this isnt the place to post...

It was good dude, sorry I'm a little slow when it comes to reading and stuff I'm reading the link it has at the end too....I'll post back in another ten months

[kingoftheforest]

Huh???

The police can kick in your door with out notice if they have a warrant!!!

But everything is cool right??

I'm thinking this article's gonna see it's hayday again before we all kick the can???

[gregimotis]

So, this article was written ten years ago and the author was warning us against then president Clinton - well, Clinton didn't take over. Another article just like it was no doubt written during the first Bush administration, and another during the Reagan years, etc. etc. all the way back to Lincoln - guess what, they didn't take over either. By and large, the republic has held.

The very fact thact that Boarspear can type this stuff on a public forum month after month without any real fear that somebody is going to knock on his door means a lot. In the soviet union, you wouldnt have a gun right to debate and you wouldn't debate it in public unless you were prepared for jail. What's more, in that system, we'd go to jail for not turning you in. And by jail, I mean dark ugly places where lawyers never show up

So you can name times and places where the police killed some civilians, where the government overstepped itself? Sure you can - as Sagacious sagely pointed out, you can't have an organization this big without problems. Waco, Kent State, Ruby ridge... How about Mustard gassing the Kurds, gassing 6 million Jews, and murdering 20 million of your own citizens (Stalin)? Anybody remember Yugoslavia? You want to see some horror, take a peak at most of East Africa.


All of which is not to say that we can all sit down quietly eat some Soma. There isn't any reason this country can't slide into despotism. There have been abuses and I believe strongly the abuses will become worse the very moment the gov. believes the people can't (or won't) resist. Certainly the current administration has it's paws all over Miss Liberty. They aren't the first to try and push, and they won't be the last.


What I'm trying to say is: Get some perspective.


Buy your guns and quietly put them in your basement if you like, but if you really want to help things, then learn enough about your government to speak coherently. Then vote, write congressmen, talk to people (not the people who already agree with you) about the things you think they should care about. Send money to the organizations you support. Do something useful now.
Or join the screwballs holed up in their basements miserably wasting thier lives fighting a war that doesn't even exist. Those guys aren't a threat to the government or anybody else.