Silat Mubai: Muslim Silat Combatives

[BoarSpear]

interesting link here as well as another link discussing the problems this may present in the near future...

[kerambit]

Hi there,

I'm very interested in the Silat Mubai people. Are they a defacto doctrine outlet for the AQ? BTW, I'm the guy who wrote the original article on them.

To me, training knowledge is separate from beliefs. Some of the best stuff out there right now comes from muslim extremists or at least extreme muslims. But that doesn't mean I like islam.

[BoarSpear]

amen Mike...if you are a source of income to my enemies, YOU are my enemy and likely to be attacked............. cutting supply lines is simply good strategy.
if you give them money and they use it to train others to attack you, whose side are you supporting? would you sell oil to enemies of your country during a conflict? supply them with weapons or training? or money?

i mean for instance...where did the Nazi's get thier oil? who sold it to them during the second world war? (anyone want to comment?) surely no one we would consider to be a friend to our nation right? those who support your enemies become your enemy by thier actions.

[kerambit]

By "Stuff" I'm referring to modern combatives synthesis arts out of the myriad SE asian styles.

If because of blinders of one kind or another, you're not making yourself aware of what this stuff is, and you're in some kind of protective capacity, then you're not doing your job as thoroughly as you can. Know your enemy.

I agree about not giving money to the enemy. That's why I've been against dependence on Saudi oil for 20 years. There is no single greater champion of terrorism than the house of Saud, and the vast sums of money they donate to Al Qaeda and other terrorist networks come largely from the United States.

[BoarSpear]

By all means get as close to your enemy as possible...know his tactics and strategy...just remember the triads of today in china started out as good guys fighting an oppressive govt...but after several generations of rubbing elbows with the underground they became a part of the problem...its all to easy to become a pawn of your enemies while engaged in spying upon his activities...

[BoarSpear]

NICE POST MIKE! i agree for the most part...My MAJOR complaint is HONESTY is GONE where our leaders are concerned...you cant trust any politician in this day and age...we all know the first thing to die in war is truth, however we are in one hell of a mess in this country today....no we didnt get here over night, but when is it gonna end? Maybe its time we told the truth let our skeletons out of the closet...fix our problems and move on...otherwise this is going to end very badly...those looters in N.O.are a sign of the mood of the people...people are tired of big business and our leaders courting each other at our expense.
sure it might suck to have to tell the people some of the things we have done to get to the top but if we want to stay on top we need the people to believe in and trust our leaders...the handwriting is on the wall, the younger generation believes all our leaders are crooks and we are fools for supporting them....i have a daughter who recently graduated from college, when her friends are over and we discuss the world, its not a very high opinion i hear from the younger generation..."If you adults are so smart why is this country going to hell in a hand basket" is the usual gist of thier reply. they often ask how we can believe the obvious lies we are told on a daily basis...
They have a point.

[BoarSpear]

well my daughter grew up in christian private schools (as did her friends) she has spent almost a year in Haiti (on two occasions) doing missionary/aid work with her friends....they have been turned away from helping in thier own country by armed soldiers as she tearfully recounted...my dad is F.E.M.A we wont go into how pissed off he is at this moment...they all hate it when the family black sheep (guess who that would be ) is right, right about what you ask? i said this is what was going to happen the next time we had a major disaster in this country...in fact my exact words was it was going to look like Steven Kings the STAND...so far, i have been exactly right...
note day one N.O police armed with shotguns looted a office depot for computers and routers....whats up with that? there is/was no power...there was no need for that it was looting, and setting a VERY bad example...when the good guys are looting electronics why shouldnt i "loot" food and water?

Here is a link worth a read....note the fact that this area has a long record of govt and police misconduct ....like i have said we didnt get here over night...and we are only making more people question our motives with the current operations we are conducting.


"Across the region we have some of the worst poverty
in America, and most of that poverty has a black face.
Mississippi, Alabama, and Louisiana: these are states
that consistently, since the Civil War, have ranked
in the bottom five states in America for virtually
every social achievement, from education and infant
mortality to police corruption. Government, for many
of the region's poor, has had one of two faces:
corruption or overt neglect. New Orleans has had one
of the highest murder rates in the nation
for decades and a notoriously corrupt police force.
In our experience dealing with catastrophes and
epidemics overseas, there is a DIRECT correlation
between the historic relationship between government
and its people, and the willingness of the populace
to believe in and correctly respond to government
instructions. Of course tens of thousands of people
failed to evacuate: why believe the government this
time? And of course those folks who are slowly starving
and baking in New Orleans assume that government
has abandoned them.

http://palehorseman.blogspot.com/

as i have said over and over its bad leadership/ example setting...from those in charge....you cant lie to us about little stuff on a daily basis and then expect us to believe you when our lives and welfare are on the line....look what it took to get Clinton to admit to a bj....you really think we are going to get the truth about 911 or WMD or anything else that might endanger those in charges power?

[BoarSpear]

"In October 1942, ten months after entering World War II, America was preparing its first assault against Nazi military forces. Prescott Bush was managing partner of Brown Brothers Harriman. His 18-year-old son George, the future U.S. President, had just begun training to become a naval pilot. On Oct. 20, 1942, the U.S. government ordered the seizure of Nazi German banking operations in New York City which were being conducted by Prescott Bush.

Under the Trading with the Enemy Act, the government took over the Union Banking Corporation, in which Bush was a director. The U.S. Alien Property Custodian seized Union Banking Corp.'s stock shares, all of which were owned by Prescott Bush, E. Roland `` Bunny '' Harriman, three Nazi executives, and two other associates of Bush"

http://www.tarpley.net/bush2.htm

this is the least inflammatory link i could find about the Bush family and Nazi oil and finance...there are MANY more that outright claim treason ...at minimum this should have excluded this family from providing 2 presidents and 2 governers SO FAR. you know those skeletons i was talking about?
this is a good place to start looking...when your greed is responsible for contributing to the worst horrors this world has seen in the last 100 years...you probably shouldnt be running the worlds largest military, since you have a proven track record of putting making money ahead of your own country's welfare.

[BoarSpear]

Bush sr was 18 at the time...1942...thats hardly ancient history....and i believe some reparations for slavery have been called for...
the Bush family has NEVER even blinked...you know the old saying the apple doesn't fall far from the tree? Have you EVER seen a Bush admit a mistake?
If any of them had ever tried to be different you might could trust them but they are a typical political family (dont forget i live in fl we have a bush for gov as well as president )...BTW please dont try to tell this southern boy everyone has forgiven and forgotten slavery or the civil war and that was over in 1865 ....yeah i think someone who supported ADOLPH HITLER's Plans 63 years ago should have been exempt from his SON and grandson being our president.


For example, say you ran an orphanage and charles manson's son (although he doesnt actually have a son to my knowledge) showed up and asked for a job...would you hire him? i might have second thoughts about letting him mop the floors...much less RUN the orphanage....

somehow i think the leader of the free world ought to have a little cleaner pedigree than that. I am not out to bush bash...that was just ONE example of questionable behavior of our leaders....its not like the Bush's were the first two presidents of our country (a country founded on a belief in GOD) who slept in coffins full of dirt for a initiation into a secret society....after all the top echelon of the N.S.A and C.I.A are also boners...we absorbed many top nazi's into what became the C.I.A and gave jobs and immunity to the japanese scientists (monsters) from unit 741...

Are you aware Prescot Bush and fellow boners also robbed Geronimo's grave? and that the skull of the famous American indian is in the skull and bones society vault?
personally i wouldnt trust someone from a secret society that encouraged grave robbing and sleeping naked in a coffin full of dirt (even once) to watch my dog, much less my country.

remember how they told you in school that any of us could be president one day ? How many of you honestly still believe that? Perhaps IF you are born into a rich political family and dont mind sleeping in a coffin you can be president is closer to the truth. how can people that far seperated from the reality of the world the rest of us live in possibly understand the needs and expectations of the common man? they cant...thats why we have leaders shopping for new 1000 dollar pairs of shoes while americans die from lack of basic needs....

Mike you said you had already donated HALF your families savings to help out your fellow man....what have our rich leaders done?...they have dropped the ball thats what.

let me close by asking this...how is it when people found out the "king of pop" michael Jackson slept in an oxygen chamber at night it was a big scandal, yet when our presidents sleep in a coffin for an initation no one seems to mind?
Here is a link to the CBS website and an article/expose they did on the Skull and Bones Society...

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/10/02/60minutes/main576332.shtml

note its a 60 minutes piece...these are not a bunch of wacky conspiracy nuts...
OOPS sorry turned this into a political rant ...sorry about that...it seems when religion and politics come up i cant shut up...probably because the unspoken rule is dont discuss these things...that in itself makes me wonder.

[kerambit]

Guys,

Please come and join us at selfdefenseforums.com... sorry to spam, but we're doing a little reconstruction of our own there after a big meltdown and I can tell you guys are thoughtful. Your input would be appreciated.

[HtTKar]

Besides, I'd wager a friendly $10 right now, publicly, that when your daughter's friends are running things it will be exactly the same.

Mike, you never know really. Every generation is different. Think of the people of the depression. This generation saved everything they had, real penny-pinchers. Very practical. They save everywhere they could, and usually left pretty good inheretances.

The babyboomers are pretty big spenders. They like houses they cant afford, huge SUV's, RV's and a pool out back that they dont use. Most have nothing saved and have spent any inheretance they recieved.

I believe that we're going to have to wait before we see what the 20 somethings are going to end up doing. Most of us have been allowed to "let kids be kids". As such many of my generation are very immature and childish. It will change, we'll see. Hopefully it gets better.

POINT 2.
All this talk of oil. People act like all of a sudden we're faced with this imminent threat. Guys...People have been warning the government for over 30years. Go to google and type in PEAK OIL. You will see what is happening along with forcasts for the next 30 years. The surprise is that most of these warnings were written in the '70s. Bush comes from a oil family. Surely they are familiar with the term "Peak Oil". I beleive they are one step ahead and ensuring their own prosperity and survival. But that's my opinion.

http://bushwatch.org/family.htm

[BoarSpear]

Uh.....

SHIT Man i really hope someones is keeping an eye on this...maybe they teach SD somewhere in the curriculum but this looks like the stuff i teach...and it aint fer self defense....any court of law is gonna call those situations murder...great for warriors ...a nightmare for civilians somehow it doesnt seem geared to civilians...the clip seems like a propaganda piece, at minimum its marketing to muslims.

CHECK OUT THE NEW CLIP!!!

http://www.mubai.cc/home.htm

[Garland]

I have seen these guys before. For reasons I don't want to go too far into (mostly because some of it is rumor), I simply won't deal with them. I will say that the first time they popped up on my radar, it was not related to anyone I knew in martial arts. I learned about them through a class I took down at Hurlbert Field. Let me cross check, and I'll be back with some details...

...These guys claim to teach Muslim silat with the chivalry and martial doctrines of Islam imbedded in, but what's the difference between that and the taoist or buddhist rituals and motiffs that run through other martial arts?

I mean, these guys claim to be on the level, so I was wondering what you're basing your suspicions on...is there any direct correlation between these guys and any terrorist organization? From what I gathered from reading their statements, it seems like they are strongly opposed to terrorist actions and fundamentalist doctines.

I mean, it's easy to see how a rumor about ties could be easily proliferated in the current political climate, but I don't think it's fair to jump to conclusions based upon their culture and religious affiliation. Just because they're Muslim's with guns doesn't make them terrorists.

But you said, "some of it is rumor"...what is the other part of it? If there is actual, factual information that could deter me from learning this art, which I think might compliment some of the other systems I train, please tell me, so I can make an actual educated decision about whether or not to study this art in good conscience.

Thank you.

[medic06]

http://www.mubai.cc/smiterrorism-statement.htm

[BoarSpear]

In all honesty, it look a lot like most of what you pick up at Guro Inosanto's seminars. Some Buhkti Negara, Serak, Harimau, LaCoste Kali (or some of the building blocks thereof), Mande Muda (again, or it's elements), and maybe even some pirated Sayoc (I'm referring to what looked a little like the right and left hand 3 of 9 in case there are any Sayoc people reading this, though I don't know enough to be sure).

In essence, it looks like the guy has studied a lot of the mainstream Philippine, Indonesian, and Malaysian arts that were made mainstream by Guro Dan and his people and then steeped it in Arab Muslim riff raff instead of acknowledging where the stuff really came from.

My final analysis from what's available in the clip is that these "Muslim Fighting Arts" are nothing special at all, but rather a new marketing package wrapped around the tried and true FMA's common to most people on these boards.

I agree the techniques are normal...The timing and scenarios he showed mostly dealt with killing a previosly neutralized opponent though...few of the scenarios struck me as self defense...it looked more like surviving the counter attack mentality...there is a difference.

did you miss the knife pulled on the man caught in the rear ground attack?...the only point to that was cutting a mans throat you already owned. i just see the same military combatives mindset that people scream when americans teach americans......