house of Saud question

[nutter]

It has be stated as fact in this forum that the Saudi Royal familiy fund, and by implication support, Al Qeada. What is the evidence and rationale for this?

It has also been suggested that the sale of a US port to a UAE is "selling to the enemy". What is the logic to this belief?

[nutter]

Mike mate, that's as I heard it but I don't think it's universally accepted, at least not around here mate.
http://www.defend.net/deluxeforums/s...99&postcount=6

I agree about not giving money to the enemy. That's why I've been against dependence on Saudi oil for 20 years. There is no single greater champion of terrorism than the house of Saud, and the vast sums of money they donate to Al Qaeda and other terrorist networks come largely from the United States.

[treelizard]

http://archive.salon.com/books/feature/2004/03/11/unger_1/index_np.html

[treelizard]

TL,
More conspiracy theory, huh? I notice you posted the link, but what side are you taking?

"Tyranny is tyranny, let it come from whom it may."

[treelizard]

Honestly, Mike, I had expected more from you than to assume something is a conspiracy theory without even looking at the facts!! The FACT is that there is a *relationship* between the Bush and the Saud families that existed before 9/11. The FACT is that DOZENS of Saudi royals and members of the bin Laden family fled the US in a secret airlift authorized by Bush himself without even being questioned by the FBI! Are you going to tell me I am somehow unAmerican because I'm looking into the facts instead of buying into government propaganda, which you appear to be making a habit of? At least the guy who wrote the "conspiracy" book was using his investigative reporting skills instead of just believing what he was told.

[treelizard]

Yes, and I suppose next you're gonna say that Bin Laden's father wasn't a close friend and political ally of King Ibn Saud, either.

Can you say "revisionism"?

[treelizard]

Letter From President Roosevelt to King Ibn Saud, April 5, 1945

GREAT AND GOOD FRIEND:

I have received the communication which Your Majesty sent me under date of March 10, 1945, in which you refer to the question of Palestine and to the continuing interest of the Arabs in current developments affecting that country.

I am gratified that Your Majesty took this occasion to bring your views on this question to my attention and I have given the most careful attention to the statements which you make in your letter. I am also mindful of the memorable conversation which we had not so long ago and in the course of which I had an opportunity to obtain so vivid an impression of Your Majesty's sentiments on this question.

Your Majesty will recall that on previous occasions I communicated to you the attitude of the American Government toward Palestine and made clear our desire that no decision be taken with respect to the basic situation in that country without full consultation with both Arabs and Jews. Your Majesty will also doubtless recall that during our recent conversation I assured you that I would take no action, in my capacity as Chief of the Executive Branch of this Government, which might prove hostile to the Arab people.

It gives me pleasure to renew to Your Majesty the assurances which you have previously received regarding the attitude of my Government and my own, as Chief Executive, with regard to the question of Palestine and to inform you that the policy of this Government in this respect is unchanged.

I desire also at this time to send you my best wishes for Your Majesty's continued good health and for the welfare of your people.

Your Good Friend,
FRANKLIN D. ROOSEVELT
His Majesty
ABDUL AZIZ IBN ABDUR RAHMAN AL FAISAL AL SAUD
King of Saudi Arabia
Riyadh

(1) Department of State Bulletin of October 21, 1945, p. 623.

[treelizard]

A new report from the Council on Foreign Relations says what the Bush administration won’t: Terror Funds Flow Through Saudi Arabia.

The Bush administration's efforts to cut off funds for international terrorism are destined to fail until it confronts Saudi Arabia, whose leaders have tolerated some of its wealthy citizens raising millions of dollars a year for al Qaeda, according to a new report from an influential foreign policy organization.

The report from the New York-based Council on Foreign Relations, scheduled for release today, contends that the administration must pressure the Saudis-as well as other governments – to crack down on terror financing, even at the risk of sparking a public backlash that could jeopardize the Saudi government.

"It is worth stating clearly and unambiguously what official U.S. government spokespersons have not," the report notes. "For years, individuals and charities based in Saudi Arabia have been the most important source of funds for al Qaeda, and for years the Saudi officials have turned a blind eye to this problem."

Feeds Report: Terror Funds Flow Through Saudi Arabia
Fundraising by Al Qaeda Sympathizers Continues Unabated in the Kingdom

By Douglas Farah
Washington Post Staff Writer
Wednesday, October 16, 2002; 7:43 PM

The Bush administration's efforts to cut off funds for international terrorism are destined to fail until it confronts Saudi Arabia, whose leaders have tolerated some of its wealthy citizens raising millions of dollars a year for al Qaeda, according to a new report from an influential foreign policy organization.

The report from the New York-based Council on Foreign Relations, scheduled for release today, contends that the administration must pressure the Saudis-as well as other governments – to crack down on terror financing, even at the risk of sparking a public backlash that could jeopardize the Saudi government.


"It is worth stating clearly and unambiguously what official U.S. government spokespersons have not," the report notes. "For years, individuals and charities based in Saudi Arabia have been the most important source of funds for al Qaeda, and for years the Saudi officials have turned a blind eye to this problem."

Administration criticism of Saudi Arabia, the top oil supplier to the United States and a crucial ally if the Bush administration takes military action against Iraq, has been largely muted since the Sept. 11 attacks, despite the belief of many law enforcement and intelligence officials here and abroad that al Qaeda relies on wealthy Saudis for most of its funding.

Earlier this year, however, relations became strained when a defense consultant told a Penatagon advisory committee that Saudis were active at all levels of the terror chain.

The Saudi government had no immediate response to the report. Its embassy in Washington put out a statement praising U.S.-Saudi cooperation in freezing terrorist assets and cracking down on charities, saying the support and financing of terrorism "cannot be tolerated."

But the report drew a sharp rebuttal from the Bush administration. Robert Nichols, the Treasury Department's deputy assistant secretary for public affairs, said the report was "seriously flawed" and that his department considered it a "Clinton-era snapshot of what al Qaeda looked like in 1999 or 2000" without taking into account the new resources and strategies to combat terror financing.

"We are not claiming victory, we are not spiking the football, but we are off to a good start," Nichols said.

Administration officials said they were angry that Treasury and other agencies had not been invited to brief the panel. But Maurice R. Greenberg, the panel's chairman, said that in late August the council extended a written invitation to the NSC to address the group and an oral invitation to Treasury. Both were declined, he said.

The report, prepared by a bipartisan panel of financial and terrorism experts, reveals no new details about U.S. or Saudi efforts to staunch terror funding. But it plainly asserts what many officials have said privately for some time.

"I know a lot of people in the administration are really upset with this, but it essentially lays out what many of us have been saying," said one senior administration official. "That is, we need to come up with strategies that are as creative as those of the enemy, and that, like it or not, many of the financial roads to al Qaeda go through Saudi Arabia."

While the United Nations and others have recently warned that the financial war on terror was sputtering, analysts inside and outside government said the conclusions of the panel carry particular weight because it is bipartisan. Greenberg is an influential Republican fund-raiser and corporate executive. The two co-directors, William F. Wechsler and Lee S. Wolosky, tracked terrorist financing while serving in the Clinton administration's National Security Council.

The report concludes that al Qaeda retains access to millions of dollars and that as long as its financial network is viable, the terrorist organization "remains a lethal threat to the United States." Financing for Osama bin Laden's terror network is often routed through charities, front companies and shell banks in offshore havens.

In recent testimony to Congress, senior administration officials, have acknowledged that al Qaeda retains the financial capability to carry out attacks against the United States and elsewhere. Administration officials have said that since Sept. 11, the United States has designated 240 people and organizations as terrorist supporters and blocked $112 million in suspected terrorist assets.

"The problem (of terrorist financing) is of enormous magnitude," Jimmy Gurule, undersecretary of Treasury for enforcement, told the Senate Finance Committee last week. "We have made a dent, but we have a long way to go."

The report touched on another sensitive issue, saying the administration's difficulties in tracking and disrupting al Qaeda's financial empire "have been exacerbated by the lack of interagency coordination within the U.S. government," citing duplication of tasks and information sharing difficulties among the CIA, FBI and Treasury departments.

Nichols said that, while there were initially problems with inter-agency coordination, "the kinks have been worked out, and inter-agency cooperation is alive and well."

The report was especially harsh on the Bush administration's relationship with Saudi Arabia. The administration "appears to have made a policy decision not to use the full power of U.S. influence and legal authorities to pressure or compel other governments to combat terrorist financing more effectively."

Greenberg, chairman and CEO of AIG, said the administration needs to "much more forceful" in dealing with Saudi Arabia, and that the administration "should be all over" the Saudi government whenever terrorist financial ties were found.

"Sitting in a corner is not the answer," Greenberg said. "Whatever we are doing, it isn't working."

The report acknowleged that criticizing Saudi Arabia publicly and demanding a crackdown on Islamic banks, charities and wealthy sponsors of al Qaeda could create a backlash that would jeoprodize the survival of the Saudi government.

But it said the risk of inaction was even greater, because it will allow terrorist supporters to "gain strength and influence steadily among their own population," which ultimately will put the Saudi government at risk anyway.

[treelizard]

hey Mike, cat got your tongue?

[BoarSpear]

I dunno, bit it seems to me lizard your'e just playing the game... once again you're complaing about the way the USA does business, all the while you have a dual citizenship here and in Isreal....you live in our comfort and safety, yet complain about how we provide it We are stuck in this mess BECAUSE Isreal's founding fathers were TERRORIST. You complain about Arabs, but hey you're the ones who rocket attack in response to a couple of thrown rocks...and you wonder why the Arabs arent fond of you? Dont try to make your war with the Arabs any more of an American problem than it already is

[treelizard]

Sounds to me like you don't have a leg to stand on so are going for personal attacks. I would have expected more from a soldier. Bile and hatred?! You're the one who said you don't care about people who were TORTURED as long as it doesn't interfere with your sacred mission. Who hates Arabs, someone drawing conclusions based on research, or someone who is okay with Arabs being stripped naked, stacked in pyramids, cowering before snarling dogs, and being hooded?

Interesting that Saddam's government tortured and executed dissidents in the same prison, btw, dontcha think?

[BoarSpear]

Sounds to me like you don't have a leg to stand on so are going for personal attacks. I would have expected more from a soldier. Bile and hatred?! You're the one who said you don't care about people who were TORTURED as long as it doesn't interfere with your sacred mission. Who hates Arabs, someone drawing conclusions based on research, or someone who is okay with Arabs being stripped naked, stacked in pyramids, cowering before snarling dogs, and being hooded?

Interesting that Saddam's government tortured and executed dissidents in the same prison, btw, dontcha think?

Hehehe look who is crying foul again you guys started the terrorism train rolling in the middle east, when you were the conductor it was all great, now that you're just another stop on the route you want to blame the other side for hating you? WTF???

As for the mission, when the mission is not to get nuked because the israeli government and religion cant get along with the Arab world, then yeah we HAVE to take extreme measures, thanks to your terrorist forefathers...

If we dont help you out all we hear is holocaust this and that IF we keep helping you out theres gonna be another one, a Nuclear one....i really dont wanna get nuked so your friends can have a place to hide from the nazi's in your nightmares...

[treelizard]

Those poor innocent Muslim terrorists. They just want to live a normal life, praying to Allah, flying planes into buildings, chanting from the Q'uran while cutting off people's heads, and getting 72 virgins in heaven when they are brave enough to kill themselves and others. Waaah, waaah, cry me a river.

[treelizard]

At least kerambit and nutter did their research. Boar, you used to do research too... guess Brewer's been rubbin' off on ya, hey?

[BoarSpear]

Those poor innocent Muslim terrorists. They just want to live a normal life, praying to Allah, flying planes into buildings, chanting from the Q'uran while cutting off people's heads, and getting 72 virgins in heaven when they are brave enough to kill themselves and others. Waaah, waaah, cry me a river.

How about the poor Arab women and children killed when your first leader helped bomb the king David hotel? American and British Families were killed by those ISRAELI terrorist wo blamed in on the muslims....HMMMM yeah.

Cause and effect, your people proved the effectiveness of terrorism when you forced the British out using it...why be surprised when what goes around, comes around?