Young Americans

[BoarSpear]

I'm not sure I understand what you're implying. Is it your contention that the NCOs and Officers training our troops today are not taking the enemy's training seriously?

YOU said IF there was a problem the NCO's were to blame...I pointed out the only reason NCO's and the machine don't get behind a cause is because the administration is like a fan...Don't bother getting huffy and trying to make this about me. I didn't blame the NCO's YOU did...I just pointed out if in fact the NCO"S are to blame as you said they were, its still the administrations fault, as I've said all along. I made the reference they don't take his bullshit "tactics or strategy" seriously. Of course they respect the fact the fact their lives are on the line, but the tactics used prevent them from winning SO.....they concentrate on surviving instead of winning...its Bush's Crap they don't take seriously.NOT the fight.

[BoarSpear]

In other words, it may be that all the politicians are bad guys and all the generals are gutless liars. Or it may be that when people like you attack and scrutinize every "foul" our guys commit, especially without proof, opposing views, or legal decisions, you're actually the one keeping them from being able to fight to win. Maybe it's the people at home screaming "Fight to win! Just don't be mean about it!" that are the problem.

So you're back to blaming to me for not winning the war in Iraq and Afghanistan huh? You pyops desk jockeys are all alike and your gig is old and crusty, get a new book...attacking Me to distract from your own actions is freakin' OOOOOOLD yeah we know, destroy the character of those who dare to speak out against the leadership...I saw where you said the men who tried to stop Hitler were bad for Hitlers ideas and therefore bad for Germany. It's funny the people you have to defend in order to protect your own thought process and actions ain't it? you've gotta decide those guys were good for the Nazi's enemy, then that means Boars guilty of supporting Al Qaeda if he doesn't support Bush's wars right? Amazing how you guys try to spin shit.

[BoarSpear]

Why is it so wrong when the troops take your advice?

Hey, Rambo...Since you mentioned it, after RUNNING AWAY AND CLOSING THE THREAD RATHER THAN DISCUSS IT LIKE A MAN....All I have for you is this, your pen in the eye story was a JOKE..It wasnt the concept aside from the fact the rules of engagement prevented it, it was just an amateurs Rambo fantasy, You had MUCH better options that WERE within your rules of engagement and you could have survived....unlike in your fantasy.

I've NEVER advocated rape, murder, torture, or banned weapon usage, kidnapping, terrorizing civilians or their livestock...that isnt playing dirty, its being stupid and your own worse enemy...If you'd get off your high horse and pull your head out of your ass you'd admit I'm right but you cant admit I'm right about anything because you're too blinded by the fear I might be right to listen.

[Garland]

please...the two of you...don't get my thread closed.

[BoarSpear]

I I've never met a soldier, sailor, marine, or airman than would tell you he pulled the trigger because his President said to do so.

Every soldier, sailor, marine, or airman that pulls the trigger without the Presidents permission is guilty of Murder and perhaps an international incident.

The Commander in Chief is the THE highest authority in the Military Chain of Command. HIS leadership, integrity, actions and decisions DECIDE the face the world will see of our troops. His behavior reflects on how the world sees our troops and reacts to them...The troops also have a HUGE impact on how the People see them....But HE is responsible for making it clear this behavior will NOT be tolerated...instead he sends out the message he will cover it up and lie to the very end to deny it happened and if that doesnt work by god they'll blame the people who point it out for costing them the war.

[medic06]

Well Mike, let me ask you a question. What exactly would a "win" in this war be? What are our final goals?

[DickHardman]

i gotta say, hiding under a bed and screaming for god to deliver me doesnt look like its that fun. i dont think this video was to glorify war, i think it was trying to present a real, gritty look at what its like to be a soldier. its not fun and games like many people may think. i myself had a coworker who got shipped off to iraq not too long ago, and i swear to god this guy acted like he was going to a football game, or he was going to be playing some video game. i never seen anyone so hyped up and excited to go to baghdad. im not sure people realize how difficult of a job it is, and im not saying a 23 year old sheltered stoner like me knows how hard it is, but at least im not one of the deluded folks who thinks going into a warzone is going to be fun and games.

[Tom Yum]

i gotta say, hiding under a bed and screaming for god to deliver me doesnt look like its that fun.

Those screams were blood-curdling.

i dont think this video was to glorify war, i think it was trying to present a real, gritty look at what its like to be a soldier. its not fun and games like many people may think. i myself had a coworker who got shipped off to iraq not too long ago, and i swear to god this guy acted like he was going to a football game, or he was going to be playing some video game. i never seen anyone so hyped up and excited to go to baghdad.

im not sure people realize how difficult of a job it is, and im not saying a 23 year old sheltered stoner like me knows how hard it is, but at least im not one of the deluded folks who thinks going into a warzone is going to be fun and games.

I wouldn't see it as fun and games. I see it as a job, a duty if you will.

Maybe its my slightly older than 23-yr old point of view, but I would take my training very seriously, since what I'd learn in the classroom, range and field would directly apply to what we would be doing.

And the first thing I'd do once we got there was get ahold of someone whose already done my job, completed a tour (if allowed) and learn from them, do drills with them so as to speed up any learning curve.

On top of that, I'd probably like to get to know the fellas I'll be working with. Grab a beer or two with them after training (so long as its not breaking fraternization rules).

[kingoftheforest]

Wasn't there a video and article that started this thread. When did it become a debate about people's military history or how to win a war?

This started as a good off topic discussion but it seems to be falling apart.

So anybody wanna talk about the article?

[BoarSpear]

When did it become a debate about people's military history or how to win a war?

[BoarSpear]

(You know, I really did get my hopes up that you might have been being honest when you said you weren't going to answer any of my posts anymore. The notion really brightened my day....)

Show me that post.... for someone who doesn't wanna talk to me you sure chase me around quoting my post, then you claim you don't want to talk to me...Oh I get it...you just wanna have the only opinion voiced...tough shit its still a free country, in spite of you and Bush's attempts to quell free speech. If you note though unless you quote me and directly address me I don't bother with you...trust me I couldnt give a shit what you post, hell I rarely read the tripe you post TOO me, I damn sure dont bother with the rest of your propaganda.

So in essence if you don't wanna read my replies to your posts, don't quote me and mouth off and you wont have to... but If you think you can lie and insult me and I'll ignore it BECAUSE you're the Super Moderator, you're wrong...I'll point out what a shitty leadership example you're setting, just like Bush.

[medic06]

Wasn't there a video and article that started this thread. When did it become a debate about people's military history or how to win a war?

This started as a good off topic discussion but it seems to be falling apart.

So anybody wanna talk about the article?

Sorry, my bad. Curiousity got the better of me. . . .

[BoarSpear]

Rules of psyops...

. "Name calling" and the use of slogans are techniques of this nature.

Additional information required to be recognized. Additional information is required by the target or analyst for the use of this technique to be recognized. "Lying" is an example of this technique. The audience or analyst must have additional information in order to know whether a lie is being told.

* Hang him by his words: Misquoting or quoting out of context. From Cardinal Rechelieu: "Give me six lines written by the most honorable of men and I will find an excuse in them to hang him."
* Hidden premise: "When did you stop beating your wife?"
* Guilt by association. Your acquaintances are bad so you must be also.
* Halo and reverse halo effect: Inferring status or authority, or lack thereof, from cosmetic attributes. "He looks like a leader." "He acts like a loser."

* Pygmalion effect: Judging a person or his argument by the language or dialect he uses or who well he uses it.
* Stigmatization: Attributing bad luck to character deficiency.

http://www.constitution.org/col/propaganda_army.htm

[Garland]

.
* Halo and reverse halo effect: Inferring status or authority, or lack thereof, from cosmetic attributes. "He looks like a leader." "He acts like a loser."

Psyops and Halo? You own an X Box?

[Garland]

I'm sorry bro...I had to. You guys post on each other so slow...do it quicker, and I'll pop some popcorn.