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  • #31
    Ahh, f**k off mate. I dont care about your problems with cholesterol. I am not a victim of the media, however I am certain that you are.

    Your sources of information are from articles trying to lead people to believe their point of view. My sources are from biochemical texts. Texts that are not attempting to change peoples diet but to aid comprehension of how molecular chemistry works.

    You told me earlier that personal attacks show how weak an argument is. How often did you just call me a fool? Also uneducated. And putrid.
    I am NOT going to read through 27 papers at the command of a sheep. Not happening. All this is the result of one stupid statemnt on your part. I know what part cholesterol plays in cell membranes. Thats first year biology.

    Going to find a collection of sites that support cholesterol being a LIPID.
    Will edit this post when i have a long enough list to convince even one of your ignorence

    1/http://bioresearch.ac.uk/nb/8aac8662940dd1eb8590bf6b3b32d206.html offers teaching materials on cholesterol under the section lipids

    2/http://reference.allrefer.com/encyclopedia/C/choleste.html a definition starting with "cholesterol, fatty lipid found in the body tissues and blood plasma of vertebrates"

    3/thought id use google's define function,
    a/A fatty substance (lipid) found in animal tissue and fat.
    b/A fat-like substance that is made by the body and is found naturally in animal foods such as meat, fish, poultry, eggs, and dairy products.
    c/a form of fat that performs necessary functions in the body but can also cause heart disease; cholesterol is found in animal foods such as meat, fish, poultry, eggs, and dairy products
    d/A type of lipid (fatty substance) that builds inside tissues; The body produces cholesterol, or it is obtained form eating animal products.
    e/a fatty substance that can accumulate in arteries and block them when present in high levels in the blood
    f/A fat-like substance that is found in certain foods and is also produced in the body
    g/is a soft, waxy substance found among the lipids (fats) in the blood and in every one of your body's cells
    h/The most abundant fatty substance in animal tissues.
    i/A lipid unique to animal cells that is used in the construction of cell membranes and as a building block for some hormones.
    j/Important lipid found only in animals
    k/A fatty substance that is acquired in part from certain foods.
    l/Cholesterol is a steroid lipid, found in the cell membranes of all body tissues

    4/cholesterol Synonyms: fat, saturated fat, saturated fatty acid, fatty acid, lipid, dietary fat from http://encarta.msn.com/thesaurus_561...olesterol.html

    found out that cholesterol used to be called cholesterin, but that doesnt really help my argument

    5/http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cholesterol
    Cholesterol is a sterol (a combination steroid and alcohol) and a lipid found in the cell membranes of all body tissues, and transported in the blood plasma of all animals.

    6/Cholesterol is a steroid lipid, found in the cell membranes of all body tissues from http://www.reference.com/browse/wiki/Cholesterol

    Going to stop now as thats many, many links supporting cholesterol being a lipid. If i search more i may just get repeats from google's definition so i may as well leave it at that.

    Now, in case you dont believe me that lipids are the technical term for fats... from google again,
    Definitions of lipid on the Web:

    Any of a group of fats and fatlike compounds, including sterols, fatty acids, and many other substances.


    Descriptive term for a fat or fat-like substance found in the blood, such as cholesterol. The body stores fat as energy for future use just like a car that has a reserve fuel tank. When the body needs energy, it can break down the lipids into fatty acids and burn them like glucose (sugar).


    Any of various substances that with proteins and carbohydrates constitute the principal structural components of living cells, and that include fats, waxes, phosphatides, cerebrosides, and related and derived compounds.
    buildyourimmune.tripod.com/glossary.htm

    The main type of fat found in the body.
    nydailynews.healthology.com/nydailynews/15836.htm

    Fat circulating in the blood.


    a fatty substance in the blood.


    Any of a heterogeneous group of fats and fatlike substances characterised by being water insoluble. The lipids, which are easily stored in the body, serve as a source of fuel, are an important constituent of cell structure and serve other biological functions. Lipids may be considered to include fatty acids, neutral fats, waxes and steroids. Compound lipids comprise the glycolipids, lipoproteins and phospholipids.


    Any organic compound that is greasy, insoluble in water, but soluble in alcohol. Fats, waxes, and oils are examples of lipids.
    Find detailed information on cholesterol, cholesterol facts and definitions to protect your heart.


    A fatty, waxy, or oily compound that will not dissolve in water; it contains hydrogen, carbon, and oxygen, but proportionally far less oxygen than carbohydrates.


    A general classification to denote water-insoluble compounds, such as fatty acids and sterols.


    (Gr. lipos, fat) Any of a group of fats or fat-like compounds insoluble in water and soluble in fat solvents.


    Fatty or oily substance, insoluble in water. Includes fatty acids and triglycerides. For more info, see Lipid Library and this outline.


    A substance, containing long chains of fatty acids, which is insoluble in water, but soluble in fat solvents such as alcohol and ether.


    A diverse class of naturally occurring compounds that do not dissolve well in water. Includes fatty acids and their naturally occurring derivatives.


    Carolyn D. Berdanier, University of Georgia
    books.elsevier.com/companions/0122268601/articles.htm

    Scientific term for fat and similar chemicals.
    The College of American Pathologists is the world's leading organization of board-certified pathologists.


    Fat, or fat-like, substance.


    An organic compound composed of carbon, hydrogen and oxygen that is usually insoluble in water, but soluble in alcohol, ether and chloroform; Different types of fat molecules. For example, phospholipids, cholesterol, triglycerides, steroids, eicosanoids.
    NutraBio helps you optimize your potential and empower your health with the highest quality performance and wellness supplements.


    Generally, these are organic products found in living systems that are insoluble in water, like fats. Cell membranes are made of lipids. We lose lipids as we age, which is why skin becomes less supple. Broadly, it means true fats (like triglycerides), lipoids (like phospholipids) and sterols (like cholesterol).
    situs judi slot online dan situs judi online yang menyediakan game judi slot gacor gampang menang jackpot dan maxwin.


    The term lipid comprises a diverse range of molecules and to some extent is a catchall for relatively water-insoluble or nonpolar compounds of biological origin, including waxes, fatty acids, fatty-acid derived phospholipids, sphingolipids, glycolipids and terpenoids, such as retinoids and steroids. Some lipids are linear aliphatic molecules, while others have ring structures. Some are aromatic, while others are not. Some are flexible, while others are rigid.
    en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lipid


    Will this suffice?

    Comment


    • #32
      Well I agree with Juanguspacho, even if he is acting like an idiot.

      Comment


      • #33
        Your opinion i respect treelizard.
        Worth noting that my objection is nothing to do with the cholesterol theory, its with Juan being wrong about what chemical cholesterol is. This seems petty even to me, so if the above is not enough to convince him that he was wrong, then i've lost interest. Not going to waste any more of my time on him.

        If Juan is so certain that one false idea is true and refuses to listen to reason on the subject, then it throws doubt on his beliefs with regard to cholesterol.
        If he cannot listen to reason on one subject, and admit that he was wrong, then he logically would not listen to reason about another. So he is likely to have ignored any information found that counters his beliefs in cholesterol.

        Live on in ignorence and falsehood. I've lost interest now

        Comment


        • #34
          Okay, so from what I've read, cholesterol it is a sterol (combined steroid and alcohol) and a lipid (fat-like, but not a fat, if I recall correctly) and it has the suffix -ol, for alcohol...

          Comment


          • #35
            where do you draw the line between fat-like and fat? Lipids is a broader name, covers oils and waxes as well as solid fats.
            Does a single -OH group make a compound an alcohol? Only if its the only functional group. Cholesterol has other functional groups so i dont believe it counts as an alcohol.

            Perhaps it is just two different ways of looking at the same thing. Im certain im right, Juan is doubtless sure he is right. Doesnt really matter which one of us is wrong however

            Comment


            • #36
              Sorry To Start Such An Argument.
              By The Way, I Read The Statment Carefully, And You Spelled Humans Wrong (huamns).
              Unless We're Talking About Something Completely Different, Then I Just Made An Ass Out Of Myself, Speaking Of Which, See How Annoying Caps-lock Is?

              Comment


              • #37
                No worries mate
                I get into arguments too easily

                Comment


                • #38
                  Okay fair enough, lipids are fat-like and wax-like, but then glass is a liquid so all this doesn't matter very much. What matters is that people thing that by eating fat they will get fat, and then they take these cholesterol-lowering drugs which are really bad for you to lower it, thinking this will improve their health.

                  I just think it's really weird how they keep doing all these studies on cholesterol-lowering drugs (sponsored by the drug companies) on how statins cause plaque regression, and yet NONE of these studies report on whether or not this actually results in a reduction in clinical trials. I mean, you'd think if these companies are trying to sell these drugs, that they would want to report on evidence that the studies they do are actually applicable in clinical trials. Don't you think it's a bit odd that there aren't any studies that conclusively indicates that cholesterol relates directly to mortality rates from coronary heart disease?

                  I even read a study from Dr. Harlan Krumholz of the Department of Cardiovascular Medicine at Yale University, which stated that old people with low cholesterol died twice as often from a heart attack as did old people with a high cholesterol.

                  The thing that bugs me is that they tell you not to eat saturated fat, which you absolutely need for the omega-3 fatty acids to be utilized correctly. This is just biochemistry that gets conveniently overlooked. You need them to get into fat burning mode (growth hormone) instead of just carb-burning (insulin
                  resistance) mode.

                  From what I've read it's excess consumption of refined carbs in sugars and white flours, low levels of magnesium and iodine, vit. deficiencies (especially vitamin C which strengthens the blood vessel walls) and not enough antioxidants that protect from free radicals that lead to heart disease. Saturated fat is actually anti-microbial... And folic acid, B6, choline and B12 lower the serum homocysteine levels (high homocysteine in the blood has been correlated with the buildup of plaque in the arteries and the tendency to form clots). These nutrients are mostly found in animal foods. So basically for heart health, don't worry too much about cholesterol... Just eat animal foods rich in B6 and B12, use sea salt for thyroid function, make sure you're getting your vitamins and minerals so your artery walls will be less prone to ruptures and plaque build up, and include antimicrobial fats in your diet.

                  Comment


                  • #39
                    alcohol link: http://www.french-paradox.net/fpbksb1.html

                    Comment


                    • #40
                      Cholesterol Is Technically An Alcohol.


                      Cholesterol Is most Definitely Not A Fat. It Is "fat-like" AND WAXY But MOST CERTAINLY NOT a fat

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                      • #41
                        treelizard is 100 percent ON THE MONEY!

                        Comment


                        • #42
                          Originally posted by Juanchogespacho
                          treelizard is 100 percent ON THE MONEY!
                          And I even have the ability to post without calling people names, typing in all caps and overusing the bold function!

                          Comment


                          • #43
                            Cholesterol is a waxy substance that RESEMBLES fat , but TECHNICALLY has NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

                            Comment


                            • #44
                              'To an organic chemist, an alcohol is any compound with a hydroxyl group attached to a saturated carbon atom. ' that would be where i disagree... largely irrelevent i suppose.
                              Treelizard has been more reasonable and mature than either of use, so her argument has more merit. I lose lol.

                              Unfortunately you will now take the same approach with other people whenever someone doesnt completely agree with you. Shit happens hey.

                              Comment


                              • #45
                                The funny thing is that I'm Zoning, so technically I'm on a low-fat diet right now. HA!

                                I'm experimenting to see what happens when I gradually reintroduce higher levels of fat after I finish zoning (which I'm going to do for 30 days). I'll let you know.

                                It's all about empirical evidence.

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