Squats vs. Deadlifts

[Tom Yum]

What's up guys. I'd like to hear from some of the guys that hit the weights now and then.

I find myself preferring deadlifts over squats. As a matter of fact, I'm kind of getting an aversion to squats. The problem lies in having 3-4 times your body weight on your back. Even with two guys spotting on each end, if you've got 500-600 lbs on your back you still have a great deal of stress placed on your knees; if you do regular roadwork, this aint a plus. It also takes 2 guys to safely spot you as well. I've found that your deadlift weight is about the same as your squat, give or take 20-50 lbs.

Some people use the squat rack that provides a contained path for you to do a full squat, but doesn't use stabilizer muscles as much. This is safer if you don't have a spotter.

Deadlifts hit the quads to some degree; I know its not as vast as a squat, but if you think about the kind of movements you do in MA, you are generally exploding off the ground using your legs and core. I think the deadlifts hit the core decently as well as the legs because you start from the ground and go to the erect position, whereas in the squat you start from up and go down to quads ~ parallel to ground.

Also, deadlifts somewhat mimick the takedown, especially when you use your legs to help you round the corner once you've shot inside or if you are fast and skillfull enough to spear your partner (safely).

I'd like to hear more people's opinions and comments.

[koto_ryu]

Tough call, but deadlifts in my book. They just work a lot more and are more useful.

[Enzo566]

I always use the smith machine for sqauts ( bar set on a fix path) Its the ONLY way to make sure that u dont hurt your back while doing sqauts. The problem is that on normal sqauts your back has to much stress on it and unless your form is absolutely perfect ( which for like 95% of people i doubt) you can hurt your back easily. plus a smith machine sqaut's form is different and easier to get perfect.

But as far as deadlifts, yesterday was ther first time i did them, and i used the rubber weights incase i failed out i could drop them, and i didnt use a straight bar, cause they rip up your shins. I used that octagon bar that u stand inside, it worked good, but for some reason my traps (muscles on back next to my neck) are really really sore. Is this cause i have improper form or does deadlift hit traps, cuase i thought it was core, and legs and lower back.

[Tom Yum]

I used that octagon bar that u stand inside, it worked good, but for some reason my traps (muscles on back next to my neck) are really really sore. Is this cause i have improper form or does deadlift hit traps, cuase i thought it was core, and legs and lower back.

The octagon bar is really nice for deadlifts, I like using it now and then.

You might be shrugging on your deadlift, which would definitely hit the traps. You're not supposed to shrug on the deadlift as far as I know.

The groups that you mentioned are hit by the deadlift.

[Broadsword2004]

I like both, but I'd have to say I like squats the best. You can't get the same workout for your legs doing deadlifts that you can with squats. Deadlifts, however, I'd think should be a prerequisite for squats, in that they allow you to build up your lower back strength so that your body can support the barbell for the squat. I never use a machine for barbell squats, I use a squat rack that has "catches" (whatever they're called), so that if for some reason I squatted down too far and couldn't get the bar back up, I can basically just sit back and these catches will catch the barbell for me.

If you ever have to pick up a friend and carry them on your back, you have to be able to hold them steady while moving over possibly rough terrain; no smith machine can simulate that, but a reg. barbell squat can. Just make sure your back and abdominals are strong enough is all.

I have never had any strength problems with my lower back in terms of it getting stressed too much supporting the barbell while doing squats.

Personally I say do both though. Deadlifts and squats are both awesome exercises!! Both build up some real strength too.

[Broadsword2004]

BTW, in reference to having perfect form on squats or else you can screw up your back easily, you should see the number of folk I see who use improper form for deadlifts. It is a wonder they don't pop their discs or something.

[Enzo566]

well im not an expert or anything lol, but i just know that i see other people my age (18) in the gym doing them horribly wrong, and i know that if your back isnt in correct form it can go wrong fast, same with deadlifts though your right, i just assumed if u can do a sqaut proper form u can also deadlift with correct form.

I might start doing it with barbell, i dont like the way my feet feel when doing them though, like out of place and it makes me feel like my legs want to bow in. O well ill give it a shot with My Str Training Teacher watchin i guess.

O and also btw why do my fingers feel like ther are all broken and very brittle after i do 3 sets of deadlifts with the octagon thing. I mean i assume its just from holding it but damn stuff hurts.

[EmptyneSs]

i dont like squats. too much stress on my joints and the risk of injury is high. i prefer to do weightless squats in high numbers, or machine squats with high reps and low weights. squats with lots of weight are just too risky i think, plus all that weight will make ur legs really bulky.

deadlifts are cool, but i dont do them with too much weight, as the risk of injury is also high with those.

[Thai Bri]

Enzo - It is impossible to use correct form whilst squatting with a Smith Machine. The bar is not meant to go up and down in a perfectly vertical line.

Each exercise is great, as long as you do it properly. Each exercise will damage you badly if you do not.

Go here www.hardgainer.com for safe, drug free, common sense weight training advice.

[Enzo566]

Thai yes it is possible, u just use it in a different way.

The way it is done is a 90 degree angle between your back and qauds.

So basically Back totally vertical, and legs out so that when u sqaut, your knees and shins are at a perfect straight angle from your foot. This way your knees do not get injured, and your back is straigt free from bending.

You can only do it like this on a smith machine though.

This is the best example i could find on the difference. http://www.thetrainingstationinc.com/leg-exercises.html

go down and look at the little animation between the smith machine sqaut and the barbell sqaut. Smith Machine one is infinitly safer.

[koto_ryu]

Safer, yes. More effective? Nope.

[Broadsword2004]

Squats won't make your legs super bulky if you stretch them properly and keep flexible, and even if you don't do that, bulkiness usually comes when you start squatting HUGE poundages.

BTW, just a sidenote here, I have a friend who went to one of Pavel's seminars, he said Pavel is "super awesome," he said the guy is like an encyclopedia. I've gotta get to one of his seminars. He said there was one obscure test where someone tested the effects of squatting with an earring in one ear (if having an earring in one ear makes a significant enough weight change difference to cause more stimulation on the leg with the "ringed" ear); Pavel knows all of those obscure tests no one else would know of, it seems.

[Thai Bri]

I still do not agree that the Smith Machine is safer, I guess we can agree to differ.

However, from what you describe, you are undermining the overall effectiveness of the Squat. It is meant to be a compound exercise, i.e. work a number of different muscle groups. Your way is merely taking the back out of the equation, making it less functional.

[koto_ryu]

I still do not agree that the Smith Machine is safer, I guess we can agree to differ.

However, from what you describe, you are undermining the overall effectiveness of the Squat. It is meant to be a compound exercise, i.e. work a number of different muscle groups. Your way is merely taking the back out of the equation, making it less functional.

Exactly right.

[Tom Yum]

Substitutes for squats

The firemans carry (not the takedown, the position) is an awesome workout. Do this under the supervision of a coach or trainer: Hoist your workout partner up squatting under him pulling his arm over your shoulder and thigh over your other shoulder and try to bring his arm to his thigh.

Even the heaviest of partners is never over 240 lbs, so it is a heckuva lot better for your knees than trying to explode up with normal squat weight and is real resistance that you would work with in your grappling.

1. Do 30-40 squats with your partner in the firemans carry.
2. Reset your training partner and do 20-40 yd runs (not quite sprints, but your hussling as fast as you safely can while keeping good balance).