Conditioning Knuckles

[Hardball]

Check out the thread entitled "Fist" in the jeet kune do forumn. Also do a search using conditioning........there are a zillion threads already written.

[kikr]

Conditioning knuckles is a dangerous proposition...arthritis, carpal tunnel syndrome, nerve damage, and inability to grasp are the most common results. Try grip strengthing exercises to enable you to form a tighter fist for more effective punches.

When you punch with your first two knuckles, it allignes the radial bone with your index finger, and your ulna with your middle finger and allows the force to be transfered up the arm and into your shoulder where it is absorbed by the large bone and muscle structure as opposed to the small bones of the wrist. Much safer, much more effective. Good luck!

[EmptyneSs]

lei kung, all you need to do is bagwork bro. through constant bagwork you can strengthen your fists and knuckles considerably.


the last two knuckles are indeed the weaker than the first two and easier to break, but through constant conditioning through bagwork, they can all be strengthened considerably. however, i hope you dont have to hit anyone anytime soon cause the risk of breaking the last two is very high.

now, at my gym ive talked to like 3 people so far who have broken their knuckles in a fight because they hit with the last 2 on accident. not only that but all 3 people who i talked to had their knuckle bust through their hand out of the skin when it broke, cause it popped outwards. i know for sure one of them had to have it repaired by surgery and hardware installed into his bone. its not a pretty facture. my instructor was one of the people who had this fracture( i pity for whoever got hit by him) and another guy got his fracture in the middle of a fight and didnt even realize it till later.

now to be fair, boxers dont condition their last two knuckles at all so they dont get stronger. i myself wear light bag gloves, not boxing gloves, and practice all kinds of hand strikes to strengthen all my knuckles and my entire fist. i do 3 knuckle landing on the bag just to strengthen them for when i miss with the first 2 knuckles. the 2st two can become devastating impact weapons with lots of bagwork and conditioning thats why i advocate them over the last 3. if you look at the knuckles of experienced boxers and thai boxers you will see that years of conditioning has not only caused the front 2 knuckles to get stronger, but they even increase in size, becoming a devastating impact weapon. the front 2 are the biggest and naturally protrude more than the rest.

so i guess what im saying is dont neglect any of em. condition em all.

[lei_kung]

Look I'm not looking to get into a debate over Index and middle vs. middle through pinky knuckle punching but since it has been brought up I will make a few quick comments.

First, this isn't a choice I've taken on for some flippant reason. Until recently I've always punched with the index and middle style. I've come to fully believe that the three knuckle punch is a much better punch over all (see an earlier post of my for some recommended readings).

Second, kikr you're description of bone alignments is incorrect. I've heard that description before but when I checked that reasoning with a friend who is an orthopedist he showed me how that isn't possible. I'm not saying that style of punching isn't powerful, because it is. Although, your explanation is incorrect. In fact the only reason why the index and middle style punch is safer is because those knuckles are less likely to break. Hence, that is why I wish to condition the bottom three.

Third, the idea that conditioning knuckles can cause health problems such as arthritis or carpal tunnel is a myth. There is no evidence that any kind of knuckle conditioning will lead to the listed conditions. Nerve damages maybe possible, but it is no more likely then any time one is to punch something.

Lastly, one of boxing greatest strikers promotes the three knuckle strike over the two knuckle strike. His name is Jack Dempsey. Many believe and promote the two knuckle strike without actually understanding the difference between the two. I suggest if you think you know why one is better then the other that you read my suggested reading first and undertake research on your own before you try and comment.

Thank you for the suggestions from those that have given them. To everyone else, do some real research before you speak up and make yourselves look like fools. Again I don't want to debate this because I have done the research; I'm just looking for ways to condition my bottom three knuckles.

Lei Kung

[EmptyneSs]

Look I'm not looking to get into a debate over Index and middle vs. middle through pinky knuckle punching but since it has been brought up I will make a few quick comments.

First, this isn't a choice I've taken on for some flippant reason. Until recently I've always punched with the index and middle style. I've come to fully believe that the three knuckle punch is a much better punch over all (see an earlier post of my for some recommended readings).

Second, kikr you're description of bone alignments is incorrect. I've heard that description before but when I checked that reasoning with a friend who is an orthopedist he showed me how that isn't possible. I'm not saying that style of punching isn't powerful, because it is. Although, your explanation is incorrect. In fact the only reason why the index and middle style punch is safer is because those knuckles are less likely to break. Hence, that is why I wish to condition the bottom three.

Third, the idea that conditioning knuckles can cause health problems such as arthritis or carpal tunnel is a myth. There is no evidence that any kind of knuckle conditioning will lead to the listed conditions. Nerve damages maybe possible, but it is no more likely then any time one is to punch something.

Lastly, one of boxing greatest strikers promotes the three knuckle strike over the two knuckle strike. His name is Jack Dempsey. Many believe and promote the two knuckle strike without actually understanding the difference between the two. I suggest if you think you know why one is better then the other that you read my suggested reading first and undertake research on your own before you try and comment.

Thank you for the suggestions from those that have given them. To everyone else, do some real research before you speak up and make yourselves look like fools. Again I don't want to debate this because I have done the research; I'm just looking for ways to condition my bottom three knuckles.

Lei Kung

you are not jack dempsey.

jack dempsey was born in 1895 bro. boxing has evolved considerably since then. it looked nothing like modern boxing which has been honed and developed further than the style of 100 years ago that you are trying to claim is superior.

if you want to learn boxing from 100 years ago, as opposed to modern boxing thats fine, your choice.

but as i said, i hope you dont have to punch anyone anytime soon.

[kikr]

http://www.emedicinehealth.com/boxers_fracture/article_em.htm

http://orthopedics.about.com/cs/upperfx/g/boxers.htm

http://www.drkelly.us/boxers%20fracture.asp

http://clinicalcases.blogspot.com/2004/07/boxers-fracture.html

http://www.wheelessonline.com/ortho/boxers_fracture_metacarpal_neck_1

You can also read Dr.J.C Canney "Health and Fitness in the Martial Arts" or

"Fractures and Joint Injuries" by Reginald Jones

I'm not going to argue with you concerning self destructive training practices. I can only caution you about the dangers you encounter and hope you make an informed, mature decision. Good Luck.

[kanik]

I am agreeing with lei kung here, anywho i used to allways punch with my last three knuckles and nothing ever went wrong, maybe it was just luck maybe conditioning or maybe it was somthing else, i dunno and i dont care either. As for conditioning a punching bag is the best thing i can think of for strengthining the actual knuckles, as for the skin all you need to do is build up caulluses, hit somthing rough lightly, and also punching bags help... thats my two cents which you prolly allready knew but anywho...

[Mr. Magnum]

here's the link to a site on Iron Palm Training. It's a really good start if your needing to begin training in strength or bone density etc.
Iron Body Training

[FLMKane]

you are not jack dempsey.

jack dempsey was born in 1895 bro. boxing has evolved considerably since then. it looked nothing like modern boxing which has been honed and developed further than the style of 100 years ago that you are trying to claim is superior.

if you want to learn boxing from 100 years ago, as opposed to modern boxing thats fine, your choice.

but as i said, i hope you dont have to punch anyone anytime soon.

Evolved for the worse. Most fighters these days are performers. JD was one of the greatest heavyweights in history. His left hook was the single most powerful left hook in history. He was 180 pounds and a giant killer. If you look carefully, all the great heavyweights, from Dempsey to Ali to Tyson, punched with the bottom three knuckles.

My adivise is to take a heavybag and punch lightly at first then increase the amount of power you use as you go along.

BTW I had the same arguement about this in the boxing discussion forum. Check it out.

And what if he's not Dempsey? No one is a natural born puncher.

[DaleDugas]

There are some great ways to condition the hands and there are some bad ways.

Slowly and progessively hitting a heavy bag is great to develop the hands as well as the wrists which take a lot of impact from the strikes if you punch.

If you want to do knuckle push ups, be careful as you can injure the joints.

Iron Palm condition can help to develop the hands in a different manner than hitting a makiwara post or heavy bag. Medicines are used as well as training on bags filled with varied medium. It is progressive as well.

Also look to resistance training to develop the body as well as structure involved in punching. Never hurts to be strong.

[jonbey]

I recall someone once told me that the most well conditioned knuckles they had seen were those of a carpet fitter. Many years of gentle pressure on a relatively soft surface. Not much good if you only have a few months to prepare of a fight!

[kanik]

Ooooo!!!! Three knuckle VS two knuckle arguement!! yay! But why not punch with both at different times depending on the strike and where you strike? They both have very different advantages and disadvantages, its just a matter of which strikes you use, and in which way you use them. I use three different jabs with the bottom three knuckles, and 2 or somthing with the large two. They have all very different strengths and weakneses, and as a result are used at different times for different desired results... as for conditioning knuckles, I just punch the hell out of my bag, no gloves, to wraps, no nothing. Been doing it for ages, and my habnds are pretty kickass, though yeah. Start slow and build up, Oh! and paperbark trees, or bannana trees! And other random objects and so on and so forth! Makiwaras are great for that too. Strike as many different objects as you can find, and build it up.

[Camo]

Knuckle push ups on the said fingers may help out a bit.

[kanik]

Knuckle push ups on the said fingers may help out a bit.

Plyometric knuckle push-ups with a punch to make it even more insane. Do a plyometric knuckle push-up, then punch before you hit the ground... HELL even HIT the ground with the PUNCH! YAY!

[FLMKane]

plyometric knuckle push-ups with a punch to make it even more insane. Do a plyometric knuckle push-up, then punch before you hit the ground... Hell even hit the ground with the punch! Yay!

are you crazy!? You"ll break your wrist!