Sit-Ups vs Crunches

[hoplite]

I have often heard it argued that one of these exercises is superior to the other, or that one is actually dangerous and should never be used. Recently I found these two articles research by Dr Raymond Chong of Medical College of Georgia that weighs in on this disagreement with empirical research.
BBC NEWS | Health | How to do the best sit-up
Research pinpoints variations in sit-up techniques

[proud chinaman]

i never do sit ups or crunches but i have a solid lower back and solid abbs, and i only exercies them once a week for like five sets. i have something called the ab max glider. its feckin brilliant. it makes you support your bodyweight with your core muscles and exercises your arms a tad as well. its also nowhere near as boring and repetitive as sit ups and stuff, as it can be really painful and challenging to use!!

[terry]

I don't find it surprising that crunches aren't that useful. However, the study cited seems to have done a better job of isolating poor training methods than identifying an optimal method. Specifically, I'd like to see the test re-done to study the efficacy of the following exercises:

1) 45 degree incline board situps using additional weight resistance placed behind neck (45 lbs)

2) Fit ball situps using additional weight resistance placed behind neck (45 lbs)

3) Situps on ab-glute machine with 75 lb rubber bands.

4) Incline board situps done when a 15 lb medicine ball is thrown to the sitter-upper mid-way through the eccentric phase.

[Silent Giant]

I do an ab exersize that I found in Matt Furey's book "Combat Conditioning". Its a full situp where you keep your legs flat on the floor and come up with your hands out in front of you. I've found that its a lot less stress on the neck and its also easier to breathe naturally.

[kh_s]

Hmm, I am currently doing one I 'saw in t-mag's website, I am not quite sure but it is called 'slow up slow down'. It's like situps, except your feet is off the ground, (it's like you are seating down on a chair except you have the floor was to support your back). You curl up and down, I do this for 3x 12 slow reps. Also my stomach feels a bit harder.

[allswoledup]

I don't do either of them

I have better abs then I've ever had since I quit cruches and sit ups,if you must do a crunch do the decline kind.

[swagman]

allswoledup

What are u doing for abs now?

[Suprman]

I don't get it!

By the sounds of things most of you hardly train your abdominals.

I train hard for a good abs and thats how i like it. I use sit-ups with and without weight and crunches to build my higher abs just below the pectorals.

Sorry to be rude but it sounds like some of you don't train your abs how you should.

[decypheredbeats]

there are 4 main areas of concern for strong abs
1 obliques
2 upper abs
3 lower abs
4 inner abs (TVA- transversus abdominus, this is an often neglected muscle, but think of it as a natural wieght belt, it is used mainly when doin torso flexions such as deadlifts and sqauts)

all 4 should be targeted equal, as for a martial artist or competive powerlifter or any athlete, as they are one of the bodies most important muscle groups. I will elaborate if any one is interested....

[allswoledup]

What are u doing for abs now?

I do cable crunches and weighted leglifts and this is pretty much it.
I also do some knee ins and decline crunches or ab machine for fun ,but those first two are my core since they work for me and can be used with as much weight as necessary.

Sorry to be rude but it sounds like some of you don't train your abs how you should.

I'm a former competitive natural bodybuilder.Many guys I've worked out with never ever trained abs except once in a blue moon.

The truth is great abs have nothing to do with the number of sit ups and crunches a person does,and everything to do with bodyfat levels and high intensity resistence.

Hardcore lifting will produce great abs over crunches an situps anyday,if the latter was the case then every out of shape weekend warrior who does 200-500 sit ups would sport a nice washboard pack,but this isn't the case.
Hardcore squats,deadlifts,bicep curls rows et cetera will do the job,and ab work is just to bring out more detail.

Hardcore=high intensity= 4-6 reps to faliure,then do two more.

This is as simple as it gets.

[decypheredbeats]

I laugh when people tell me they do 200 situps a day and then wonder why their abs never grow. Your abs are composed of primarily fast twitch muscle fibers, just as all your other major muscle groups, So would you do 200 bench presses and get a big strong chest? no! this works against because such high rep movements will dump lactic acid in your muscles and essentially destroy it, or just build endurance. But we want functionable strength, so our answer? keep rep range between 6-12 and sets around 6-9. use moderate wieght and make sure you are using your ABs not your lower back or glutes or upper body.

[bratvas]

And don't foget to bend your knees.If legs positiond flat on the floor,the momend scapulaes are of the floor,your ingage Ilipsoas muscle,which is hip flexor.

[thai_pete]

interesting thread, i also thought the higher the amount the better,

i have suffered the lack of motivation from doing a large amount of crunches a day for a month and not feeling/seeing much benefit!

so the answer is to keep the rep's low along with the help of small weights on the upper body?

[grubbogoppoly]

It doesn't really matter what exercises you do. Like someone else said it is mostly bf% and diet. But, if you do do exercises, you must concentrate on contracting the abs throughout the WHOLE MOTION

[adacas]

its all in the contraction. I have heard of people getting a good ab workout just by sitting in a chair. they just work on their ab contractions. Im not too sure about this but it makes some sense to me. I like the incline sit ups and those thingys where you just lift your legs. those are cool too. I used to be able to do V ups. thats when you lift both your upper body and your legs at the same time making a V shape but during the summer I have the habit of getting lazy and watching tv.