Stretching

[spetnatz]

Has any of you ever tried to follow the Thomas Kurz stretching program outlined in his book and video? If so, what were the results? I have read the book and watched the video but have found it difficult to follow the program strictly.

[Thai Bri]

Whats so difficult about it?

[spetnatz]

It is dificult when all your training is done in a club. The training sessions are usually not structured in acordance with Thomas Kurz methodology.I would have to be training autonomously to be able to adhere strictly to his method. In a class situation you end up training in acordance with the instructors methods, who will usually be different from Thomas Kurz methods. His training method doesn´t seem to be widespread in the club scene.

[johnzilla80]

You will have to do your training at home.
Unless u can convince instructor u are right.
Make sure u have good weight training base behind u.
especillay for the isometrics.
I followed the program and still do.
I could do splits before but noticed improvements in speed and have full range without warmup or not much.

[spetnatz]

The problem with following Thomas Kurz program at home is that after all the club training, I no longer have the energy for more exercise. I wonder why hasn´t his method been more widely adopted in kickboxing/karate training ?

[johnzilla80]

Hi!
I suppose it is because not many have done the research.
If u could somehow fit in his program that would be great.
I have had my kines. Instructor look at the book and she thinks it is great. She has masters degree in biomechanics.
She is very good. But she points out that his program is not for everyone right away as you need to make sure u have a good base of weight training with proper technique behind you.
So to do everything in a class with people of different abilities may not be appropriate.
hope this helps.

[Stigma]

I want to increase my flexebility, much like the original poster, so I'l try some of the stretches after training today in the cooldown period.

I've never stretched anywhere near as long as what this describes though. For the first stretch alone you say "up to 30 minutes, or until pain is gone". If you go through all the stretches as described, it would easily mean nearly 2 hrs of stretching. Thats pretty extreme compared to the usual stretching my instructor takes us through after trainings (wich is about 15-20min, and a lot more different types of stretches).

Can anyone (apart from excessive) confirm the usefulness of such prolonged stretching excersices? Maybye I have just been doing it wrong all this time *shrug*

[eXcessiveForce]

you will not need to do ever stretch that long. What i was saying is if you want that flexiblity you can do it for that long. After tearing my hamstrings in freak accidents I spent hours stretching just so that the pain would stop.

We took a guy the other day who is extremely stiff had him lay on his back and two of us took his legs put them at a 90 degree angle and started pulling them out too the sides. He was amazed at how far we were able to get him in 10 minutes or so.
Some people want to do the splits, If you spend a few weeks to months depending on how tight you are and just do the split exercises you can probably get there.

Most people have some flexibility so you don't need to spend hours on what you already have.


I was having real hamstring problems (doctors said i'd never have full use of my leg again) and i got in a toe touch position and read a book that way. I have never had that type of hamstring problem again.

The biggest thing is stretch often. And stretch when you are warm to gain flexibilty.

Somewhere there was a study done on the system i posted. They took people in nursing homes and had them doing the splits in less then a month.

The purpose of the study was to show ways of prolonging life. At age 65 many seniors break their hips by falling, if they are more flexible they are less likely to break their hip. Breaking a hip at 65 is concidered a life threating injury at that age.


if you have any questions PM me and I can help. The thing on stretching was an all purpose way to gain flexibiliy in the shortest time possible. a few weeks rather than a year or two.
get the jist of the post though, don't read it as this is what must be done.

[johnzilla80]

Hi
You should spend no where near 2 hours for example take a couple stretches such as front and center splits do about 5 sets for each and u are done make sure u warm up first with dynamic and finish with static if u have time.
Remember many people cannot do splits because their adductors are too weak.

[eXcessiveForce]

And how many people have you trained to the splits that were older that 25? And how long did it take?

[johnzilla80]

Good point.
I'm not sure cause i'm 23 myself and haven't trained too many.
Do u have your own method? If so I would be interested in hearing about it.
thanks

[eXcessiveForce]

I have taught many people to do the splits. Many adults can not believe that after being terribly stiff most of their lives they can now do the front and side splits along with many other stretches.

I tried to out line my method that has worked for my students for 10 years. Long slow stretching. It sounds crazy and it is. I have spent 3 hours stretching and have students that have done the same thing. After a few months of spending a few hours a week they are doing the splits. then they can drop back to the 10 to 15 minutes of stretching that lets them maintain their flexibility.


It's much like weight lifting. To get gains you have to work very hard. But to maintain you don't have to do quite as much.


Do a stretch until you being to feel main. Breath in through your nose out through your mouth and relax. Wait until it does not hurt and then push out a little farther. Repeat. Do it as long as you want. The longer you spend the faster you will see results. I don't like spending much time on stretching so I prefer to get people flexible quickly and then help them to maintain it.

There is nothing special about stretching. As a matter of fact, I had injuried my leg and that kept me from doing the splits. Then I took an office job and basicly did not train or stretch for almost 2 years at least not seriously. So I probably had 45degrees when I did the middle splits. 1 month later I am now able to do the splits again. Legs out chest flat on the floor. It will be a few more weeks before it is comfortable but I did it.

I have retrained myself to do the splits several times due to injuries and simply being lazy and not trying to maintain. it sucks to do it and seems like it takes way to long. But if you really want to be flexible try it seriously for a month. If you haven't gotten much more flexible then you didn't do it long enough each time you stretched.

and this way is a lot safer than Balistic stretching, or pressing against the stretch when you are maxed out. I've seen people injuried many times from doing stretching this way.

[Maxetai]

eXcessiveFORCE,

Can you elaborate on your stretcing techniques or "has all been said" on your previous posts?

I'm very interested on what you have to say on the subject of stretching cause I've been involved with Martial Arts -on and off-the last 27 years (mostly on), but never quite managed to do full splits comfortably. I mean I managed to do splits (almost) but I was not comfortable in the splits.

Thanks for your input.

[eXcessiveForce]

Originally posted by eXcessiveForce
Okay Here we go.

First it is important to follow some simple rules if you want to increase flexibility.

1. Stretch before working out to avoid injury.
2. Stretch after working out to improve flexability.
3. All movements should be done slowly while stretching.
4. Never Bounce "balistic stretching" you will get gains but will increase the risk of injury dramatically.
5. Do not force a muscle to go beyond its range of motion.
6. Expect pain but it should not be extreme.
7. If you suffer a pulled or strained muscle rest a few days before attempting to stretch for flexability again.



First stretch

Sit on the floor with both legs directly in front of you both feet should be touching. Pull your self down to your knees using your arms. (if this is difficult wrap a rope or belt around your feet and use that to pull down.) Then pull the feet to the left side using the belt and then to the right. This should be done as follows.
Hold position for 5 minutes or until pain subsides. Then pull down until chest is against the knees. Try not to arch your back. continue this for as long as you want up to about 30 minutes DO not bend knees

Second,

Sit on your feet in the kneeling position. and simply lie back until you are lying on the floor. Do this very slowly until you are sure you can do this with out injury. Hold position until pain subsides and go further down. Hold for 1 to 5 minutes once you are able to lie all the way down on the floor. (if you have knee problems be very careful with this stretch)

Third.

Sit on the floor put legs as far apart as possible. Place left arm behind you palm flat on the floor put right arm in front palm on floor. Lift yourself and slide your left heel straight out as far as you can. Hold position and place both hands behind palms flat.
Keep back straight and lower down to the middle until chest is flat to floor then go down over the left and right legs. Hold for 5 minutes or until pain subsides. Then swith hands left hand in front right hand behind. Lift and slide the right heel out straight.
Make sure to keep the other leg stationary. Repeat above.
I have gotten people in there 60's down to the spilts this way with in a month. NOTE: after you are done stretching pull yourself backwards and let your legs come together then use your hands to lift them up at the knees and shake them a bit to warm them up before standing.
Do not bend knees DO NOT BOUNCE!!!!!

fourth stretch.

Sit and place both soles of your feet together. pull the feet towards you and push down on your knees until they touch the floor. Then try to put your nose to the floor.



fifth stretch

Stand place legs together. place left leg behind right and pull yourself down to touch your toes. then switch legs and repeat.
Do not bend knees any more than necessary.

sixth.

Sit on floor one leg out straight. On leg off to the side and bent behind. pull down over leg that is straight until your chest touches your knee. Then lay back until your back is on the floor. You will have one leg straight down and one leg pulled under you and slightly to the side when you are laying back. Switch.



If you need anymore let me know or if you have any questions.

[eXcessiveForce]

as one of my instructors used to say. Make haste slowly.
If you do all your stretching movements slowly in little steps there is much less chance for injury.

One thing I see people have a problem with when trying to do the splits is that they sit on the back side of their bum and bend in the back.

You should be sitting on the bone in your bum instead. The pressure should stay a few inches above where your legs attatch. Then bend at the waist.

If you have any questions i'll be happy to try and help. just let me know.