astral projection

[Kimpatsu]

*Grabs the can of worms and the can opener...*
Astral projection. Well start at the aura; mystically, the spiritual force extended from the body, scientifically, an electro-magnetic field that surrouds out bodies.

If you can prove this, you can win $1 million.
Care to try?

[SamTheMan]

*Grabs the can of worms and the can opener...*
Astral projection. Well start at the aura; mystically, the spiritual force extended from the body, scientifically, an electro-magnetic field that surrouds out bodies. The belief is that you can form your aura into a vessel for your consciousness through will, visualisation, and a great deal of practice. Your astral body (aka, your aura) provides a medium for you consciousness to travel; and through your conscious will, you can project to your desired location. A part of your aura remains to keep your basic bodily processes going. If this "life support" is removed, such as by a very traumatic explosion's shockwave(even if the phisical body isnt harmed) the person will die. The problem with the military's experiments, are that it is difficult for a person to retain knowledge that they arent personally interested in. Reading something would not register in that state unless the person had a personal vested interest in reading and remebering it. This is one of those things that you either believe or you don't. It is like alot of things in this world, no proof is proof enough for anyone. Those that believe it, believe it passionately; and those that think its hooey, also believe just as passionately. It makes no sense trying to convince the other party, because it will only create unneccesary conflict. A belief that is right for one person, isnt nessecarily right for another. Neither one is wrong, and neither one is any more right than the other. What one believs is one's own personal business, and it is up to each person to find his or her own answers...
P.S.-The US didnt find weapons of mass destruction because there werent any. Hell, they probably astral projected and still knew there werent any lol. Its a war for oil and a war for creating a global power structure..It isnt right, but it is being done, and while I respect the troops from all over the world who are risking their lives; I don't agree with the governments sending them. It is the politicians' fault, not the soldiers. Kind of like; don't scream at the kids becuase their parents are idiots.

You are right that it is very hard to change peoples opinions regarding stuff like this - even music can make people stubborn. BUT dont you think the military would be "interested" to learn something like this? I dont believe it myself im strictly dependant on proof.

P.S They did find a few chemical weapons, u silly bugger, anthrax for a start, a shitload of buried cans of toxic shit? a Load of chemical war preperation gear etc. There is also a precident, when poison gas was used agains the villages of his neighbouring countries, killing thousands of innocent people.

THe view that its a war for Oill is bull. I dont know how peope believe that. Global power shit maybe but dont give me that oil crap.

I also do NOT agree with the war - the same could have been achieved in a far less bloody manner.

[EmptyneSs]

there was a kid i knew in highschool who claimed he had telekenisis and could travel back in time somtimes. this "kid" was also 21 years old and a senior in highschool.

[jubaji]

there was a kid i knew in highschool who claimed he had telekenisis and could travel back in time somtimes. this "kid" was also 21 years old and a senior in highschool.

Was your school located at 21 Jump Street?

[Tom Yum]

Was your school located at 21 Jump Street?

I'm thinking Napoleon Dynamite...

[Kimpatsu]

You are right that it is very hard to change peoples opinions regarding stuff like this - even music can make people stubborn. BUT dont you think the military would be "interested" to learn something like this? I dont believe it myself im strictly dependant on proof.

Why learn something that impossible? The brilliant US military spent $20 million and 10 years researching remote viewing; that, too, is a crock of crap, and I could have told them that for $1.99.

P.S They did find a few chemical weapons, u silly bugger, anthrax for a start, a shitload of buried cans of toxic shit? a Load of chemical war preperation gear etc. There is also a precident, when poison gas was used agains the villages of his neighbouring countries, killing thousands of innocent people.

What are you talking about? When? Where?
No WMD have been found in Iraq for over 10 years, and certainly not since the war started. If Saddam had WMD, he would have used them.

THe view that its a war for Oill is bull. I dont know how peope believe that. Global power shit maybe but dont give me that oil crap.

Control of oil is definitely part of the equation, the grand design of which is American imperial aspirations.

[marko_b]

Proof...hmmm...Well if you could document it, i mean, do it and come back with solid proof, there would be alot more hype about it..If it could be documented "legitametly," the diffent thingds you witnesses in this altered state of consciousness, then don't you think even the paparazzi would be all over those techniques? They are used for personal means, for expansion of one's own perceptions of "reality;" for one's own journey tward the truth. It goes for anything of that nature..How can you prove that there is a god? How can any religion prove that their god is the right one. How can athiests say for sure there is no god? The only way any of these people can say anything about religion or mystical practices or lack there of, is as it pertains to them through their personal experiance. If through your personal experiance you find you believe in it, then thats your belief. If through your experiance you find that it is hooey, than it is, for you, hooey. Thats a big reason that there are so many problems today. People say "if I believe it, it must be true. And since truth is all encompassing, then everyone else must believe it too." It comes from our limeted view of existance. My truth, isnt your truth and neither your truth nor my truth are Joe Shmoe's truth; and so on. "Truth" is a personal thing; it is relative to your personal vantage point. Even scientific truths are debated in the science of quantum mechanics and quantum physics, as well as very high levels of mathematics. Truth is not all encompassing. It is in flux from one person's viewpoint to the next person's viewpoint. Who knows all about the war in Iraq and Afghanistan? Noone has the whole picture. Noone can experiance the whole thing. Bush knows from his perspective, but hes not dodging bullets; and the soldiers only know about what they experiance. Bush's truth is different than the soldiers, and each soldier's truth is different that that of his fellow combatant. To use a cliche' from a popular TV series; "The truth is out there;" it is, but it is different for everyone, and to know your truth, you can only discover it through personal experiance. You don't have to believe a damn word I am saying; in fact, I urge you not to...I urge you to go find your own truth. This is mearly my interpretation of my own experiance, and it is from a view that only my experiances can bring; you have your own experiances, therefore, you will also have your own truths.

[Kimpatsu]

No evidence for any gods exist because they don't. The supernatural is a load of old twaddle. And there's $1 million on offer to anyone who can demonstrate otherwise.

[jubaji]

No evidence for any gods exist because they don't. The supernatural is a load of old twaddle.

I don't know who is worse, atheists or mormons, in pushing their beliefs on others.

[jubaji]

Control of oil is definitely part of the equation, the grand design of which is American imperial aspirations.

LOL

I love it when people ascribe grand complex conspiracies to the US Government.

I mean, haven't you been paying attention for the past 200+ years?

[marko_b]

No evidence for any gods exist because they don't. The supernatural is a load of old twaddle. And there's $1 million on offer to anyone who can demonstrate otherwise.

Such is your experiance and thus your truth. And as for the million, I have no desire to be right over anyone else. The person who has offered up the money is better off putting it to another use. When you know, you know; and when you know something else, you know something else. Why is everone so concerned about being "in the right" all the time. "I'm more right than you....No I'm more right than you.." How about I'm right for me, youre right for you, and arguing wont convince either of us to change our views, so sometimes it is better to respect the other persons right to their views and agree to disagree.

[Kimpatsu]

I don't know who is worse, atheists or mormons, in pushing their beliefs on others.

Atheists don't have beliefs; we have a lack of belief. And what do you mean "push it on others"?

[Kimpatsu]

Such is your experiance and thus your truth.

No, this is not a relativist stance. If the paranormal exists, show me evidence.

And as for the million, I have no desire to be right over anyone else.

That's it, make excuses. You're not the only one.

The person who has offered up the money is better off putting it to another use.

What could be better than this? It shows just how self-deluded some people can be, like dowsers, mediums, psychics, etc.

When you know, you know; and when you know something else, you know something else. Why is everone so concerned about being "in the right" all the time. "I'm more right than you....No I'm more right than you.." How about I'm right for me, youre right for you, and arguing wont convince either of us to change our views, so sometimes it is better to respect the other persons right to their views and agree to disagree.

This is not a question of an opinion; it's a question of fact.
There is no such thing as the paranormal. If you have evidence to the contrary, please show me.

[marko_b]

The only way for you to know that it exists is for you to experiance it. Someone can say, "do this and this and this and it can happen for you" but the only way for you to know it exists is for you to experiance it. Even if someone came up to you and said "I will give you set of practices and with doing them you can experiance yadda yadda yadda, and you wil definately experiance yadda yadda yadda yadda" even if it was done like that, a person who is as dead set against something as you will not be free of his own mind enough to take a step back and look at something with an eye of objective criticism. You believe so strongly, that anything that doesn not fall withing your "acceptable" range, is automatically non-existant. I agree, a good many of the "mediums" or "psychic" ect are frauds. You dont need a million in cash to prove them liars. Anyone charging out the yang and doing mass-miricles are phoney; phychics, mediums, or telivangelists alike. Those that do truely believe, have no reason to show off or pick arguments because they are secure in who they are, and they are secure enough in themselves, to give others freedom to be true to themselves without feeling threatened. They are secure enough to know that they dont know and they admit it. Those who need to get hot under the collar when defending against a shadow, are the ones who can't admit that they may not know. I am secure enough in myself to say that of the big picture, I really dont know; and I am willing to admit someone else may have more of a grasp of it than I do. I will not however, deny my beliefs to appease someone who who gets ruffled when it is suggested that noone really knows the ins and outs of our existance. Ask yourself, "What is the true nature of the 'self" Take one million people and pose that question and you will get an infinate assortment of answers. All of them truley believe in their answer, and believe that they are right....So how can each one "know " that they are right.*Shrugs* Each one of us carries within us our own truth; yet I believe, not one person alive or anyone who has ever lived has nailed it dead on, and Im sure noone ever will.
*Side Note-I havnt figured out that damn quote thing, but this refers to the statement that athiests can be some of the worst at shoving their beliefs down your throat(or something to that effect).* I give athiests alot of credit. In believing that this is it, they tend to be some of the most dedicated and most motivated people when it comes to making a difference and improving themselves and things around them. They deserve as much respect as any person who is dedicated and motivated in any other faith. They work just as hard as a person trying to get to a mystical afterlife, its just that they just don't wait; they do instead of speculate. They make the best of what is now, instead of beating themselves up for something that may never come to pass.*Tips hat* Never heard of an athiest with a serious procrastination issue now have you?

[Kimpatsu]

This is simply not true. I don't personally need to experience tortue to know that it hurts, for example.
The $1 million is for people to prove their claims. To date, no one has succeeded in claiming the money. Many make grandiose claims of their abilities, and then either back out, or fail the test. Some claim they "don't need the money". So, why don't they win it and donate it to charity? Because they can't.
There is no plausible mechanism for the paranormal to work, and the paranormal is not required to explain the existence of the universe or the existence of life, so postualting a supernatural creator falls foul of Occam's Razor. All cosmologies are not of equal value; the moon is not made of green cheese, and does not lie just out of reach above the treetops. Show me a cultural relativist at 30 thousand feet, and I'll show you a hypocrite. The reason their plane files is because of Western science, not mumbo-jumbo.
This is a question of "put up or shut up". Show evidence for the paranormal, or admit that your claim to its existence is invalid.