astral projection

[jubaji]

You seem to have a childish inability to distinguish between what IS true, and what you would like to be true.

You religious nuts all sound the same to me.


. Listen, don't ride any buses in my neighborhood, ok?

[Kimpatsu]

You religious nuts all sound the same to me.

I'm not religious, idiot. I'm an atheist.

Listen, don't ride any buses in my neighborhood, ok?

Where is your neighbourhood? And what kindergarten do you attend?

[HtTKar]

The $1 million dollar offer...heard that before. Currently there's Christian fundamentalists offering $1million to anyone that can prove the existance of evolution. Noone has claimed the prize.

All in all, its the same challenge. They believe that evolution never happened. These people will never believe in evolution, and in the end, it probably wont matter. They'll have kids, and lives just like everyone else.

On the Athiest side, they need proof of some God, or creator, and without that proof...

I'll be an athiest with you if you can prove that a "Creator" does not exist. Prove to me that in the beginning of the beginning that life started on its own. The St Thomas Aquinas argument that the beginning of all things was created by something. At one point in time there was nothing that anything could evolve from.

You said that in order for you to believe or disbelieve something, you needed solid facts. I would be interested if you'd share these with me.

[jubaji]

I'm not religious, idiot. I'm an atheist.:

Whoa! Easy there padre! No need to call for jihad!



(these extremists are very high strung)

[Kimpatsu]

The $1 million dollar offer...heard that before. Currently there's Christian fundamentalists offering $1million to anyone that can prove the existance of evolution. Noone has claimed the prize.

All in all, its the same challenge. They believe that evolution never happened. These people will never believe in evolution, and in the end, it probably wont matter. They'll have kids, and lives just like everyone else.

On the Athiest side, they need proof of some God, or creator, and without that proof...

I'll be an athiest with you if you can prove that a "Creator" does not exist. Prove to me that in the beginning of the beginning that life started on its own. The St Thomas Aquinas argument that the beginning of all things was created by something. At one point in time there was nothing that anything could evolve from.

You said that in order for you to believe or disbelieve something, you needed solid facts. I would be interested if you'd share these with me.

Thank you; with this one post, you've just proven that you don't knwo what science is. The Xpian challeneg is bogus, because they are demanding an absolute certainty. Their challenge was totally debunked here, here, and here.
You have also displayed a fundamental lack of understanding of what evolution IS. I suggest you actually read some science, before spouting off here.
You're asking me to prove a negative, which cannot be done. I can't prove god doesn't exist, and nor do I need to. The onus is on you to prove that she does exist--that's how science works.
You have confused evolution with abiogenesis; for that, read The Blind Watchmaker by Richard Dawkins.
Aquinas's arguements only work if you already believe in the supernatural, and have been debunked by Dan Barker and others.
Please, go study some science. But I bet you won't, because you're terrified of having your world view overthrown.

[IPON]

If I may join the party for a minute I don't plan to be detailed so please respond with fire and venom where possible. The issue for me is always about TRUTH as subjective and elusive as that can be. I believe that both Religion and Science are both flawed as they only attempt view truth their respective glasses. Religion will not acknowledge, for example, how every book in the bible could simply be stories (and if true does not remove the existence of a God of creation). Whatever the view of science positivist, empiricist whatever, Science, generally speaking, has not matured since Copernicus. While there are great technological advances, the mind set is still "if I can't observe it, quantity it, replicate it, it is wrong or does not exist". So in effect both are correct and both are incorrect. So since the current topic is astral projection lets discuss that.

It is not unfair to say one has reservations unless poof is provided but at the same time one has to also acknowledge that we are not that sophisticated and not everything can be documented. For example let’s assume astral projections, spirits and such exists how would one quantify and capture this data. Yes, the foundation of science is based on hypothesis but not all discoveries can be clinical. There is a point where you say we cannot prove or disprove which is when you can begin to walk do the path for truth. There is one scientist (actually quite a few I would guess) that have actually measured the “universe”. Now this can only be theory because we have barley past Mars, but that theory is held until disproved…that is a flaw.

A few years ago, Scientist found life (on the moon I think but I don’t remember) in the form of an organism. All Christian clergy were in arms regarding this blasphemy. Interestingly, enough there is no mention in the bible that the Lord only created life on earth. There is no reason to be believe that life was not or could not be created on other planets. More importantly, how would this invalidate your belief in a higher power if anything it should strengthen belief. Now it may change the view of religion, but if there are items that are inaccurate they should be acknowledge so people can grow. The inability to do this is a flaw.


I did not write this to change views rather further the discussion. Just my thoughts hope they are helpful

[HtTKar]

Thank you; with this one post, you've just proven that you don't knwo what science is. The Xpian challeneg is bogus, because they are demanding an absolute certainty. Their challenge was totally debunked here, here, and here.
You have also displayed a fundamental lack of understanding of what evolution IS. I suggest you actually read some science, before spouting off here.

Actually I have a degree in botany and zoology. I was going to be a scientist before I realized there's no money in it. I went back to school and gained a degree in computer science. I know very well that evolution exists, no doubt. I too have read books. Dont act like you're the only one trying to find some truth. I cant beleive that you'd be so very narrow-minded as to beleive that noone else has ever searched for truth, or read a book. My point is that the challenge he presented was completely biased, as is your challenge. What kind of proof would you need? How can you prove to others, that which you cannot prove to yourself (that a creator does not exist)? You have about as much proof to back up your assertions as the creationists. Also, evolution has proved that civilizations that beleive in a God (or many gods) outlast those that believe otherwise. Face it, how many athiest civilizations exist currently?


The idea of astral projections as stated in this forum, is not what I understand astral projections to be. You are not going to teleport to another place in real time. It is a spiritual thing. Shamans used to do this all the time, its a way of putting your mind in another place (not literal). Some shamans used ritual dances, or meditations, others used drugs. If you are a people that believe your dead do not rise to heaven, but rather stay on earth as your spirtual ancestors, this is a way to connect to them. The point was to clear your mind and separate yourself, and view yourself from the outside. If you've ever been in this state of mind, you can learn a lot about yourself, that otherwise, for some reason you neglected to notice. This was the life-blood of many civilizations and it did them well for many many generations.

[Tom Yum]

Actually I have a degree in botany and zoology. I was going to be a scientist before I realized there's no money in it..

Shouldn't you do what you enjoy doing?

You are not going to teleport to another place in real time.

Look up the Caltech Physics site circa 1998.

First the photon. Maybe an atom within 50 years?

I guess intellectualism isn't very practical. I see no valid applications of this whatsoever...

[HtTKar]

Shouldn't you do what you enjoy doing?

Its not computer science. I actually have my degree in computer electronics and telecommunications.

While I was at school for botany, I was taking a computer science class and found I was pretty good at it. It sparked my interest. Meanwhile all the botany classes were taught in ancient boring methods (looking through microscopes for days on end, memorizing every animal and plant species full latin name, etc). I transferred to a different school and took computer electronics and telecommunications. Learned alot about TTL, satellites, microwaves, sonar, radar, etc. All forms of telecommunications and how to build the devices from scratch with just capacitors, resistors, transformers, etc. How to build a board the old way. How to troubleshoot and repair these devices. Moved on to Networking, now I work at Layer2-Layer4. Lots of interesting stuff to learn.

I enjoy doing just about anything that I can get good at, and that I can continue to learn on my own at. I wanted to be a scientist when I was a little kid. It just took me a long time to realize that you can be a scientist in just about any field...its all about troubleshooting. I really do enjoy what I do know, and wouldnt trade it for anything (almost). I save botany and zoology for a hobby, and seem to prefer it that way.

[Tom Yum]

seeing that you're into telecom, I think you'll find the caltech teleportation study interesting.

[Andrew WA]

If you are one who believes in the spiritual world then astral projection can happen. But if you want my opinion its evil spirits entering in you while your mind is away from your body. They take over. All the special abilities is the power of the demon who is inside of you. Do you really want to lose control of yourself by letting an evil spirit inside of you?
All of the people and things you meet while traveling the astral plains are not even real, they are evil spirits. But thats just my spiritual believing self.

There is no good that comes from it. It is all bad, and you will never be left alone or ever have control of yourself once you go that route.

[Tom Yum]

Why learn something that impossible? The brilliant US military spent $20 million and 10 years researching remote viewing; that, too, is a crock of crap, and I could have told them that for $1.99.

Somebody is a fan of the Wendy's value menu...

[HtTKar]

Teleportation Apparatus
Entangled EPR beams are generated by combining two beams of squeezed light at a 50/50 beamsplitter. EPR beam 1 propagates to Alice's sending station, where it is combined at a 50/50 beamsplitter with the unknown input state, in this case a coherent state of unknown complex amplitude. Alice uses two sets of balanced homodyne detectors to make a Bell-state measurement on the amplitudes of the combined state. Because of the entanglement between the EPR beams, Alice's detection collapses Bob's field (EPR beam 2) into a state conditioned on Alice's measurement outcome. After receiving the classical result from Alice, Bob is able to construct the teleported state via a simple phase-space displacement of the EPR field 2.
Fidelity (Quantum vs. Classical?)
Quantum teleportation is theoretically perfect, yielding an output state which equals the input with a fidelity F=1. In practice, fidelities less than one are realized due to imperfections in the EPR pair, Alice's Bell measurement, and Bob's unitary transformation. By contrast, a sender and receiver who share only a classical communication channel cannot hope to transfer an arbitrary quantum state with a fidelity of one. For coherent states, the classical teleportation limit is F=0.5, while for light polarization states it is F=0.67. The quantum nature of the teleportation achieved in this case is demonstrated by the experimentally determined fidelity of F=0.58, greater than the classical limit of 0.5 for coherent states. Note that the fidelity is an average over all input states and so measures the ability to transfer an arbitrary, unknown superposition from Alice to Bob.

Ok, I read the Caltech study. I think this is not the same thing as astral projections. This is another way of telecommunication that is being researched. Think of fiber optics. This also uses light as the medium for data transfer, but it doesnt use fiber. It would be great if perfected, a sort of wireless optic network.

Problem is that they cant really get it to transfer true data at this time. Also you have to wonder if this would transfer data at the speed of light as does fiber optics. It also takes a lot of modulation using phase shifting and amplitude adjustment which would probably mean that even slight power fluctuations would cause uncontrollable disturbances.

This is not teleportation in the essence of this thread, It is teleporting data through light from seperate sources using quantum entanglement transversing physical medium. Unless somehow it got too expensive to make fiber optics, I cant see this technology reaching American homes. It would be a great way to communicate with sattelites, other planets, etc. That would be great to see it work. They still have to iron out the possibility of power fluctuations though. Also i read that for QOS and parity, there is a third part to this whole system named "Victor" problem is..victor has to be connected to both sending and recieving parties via classical (hardwired) means. They'll need to also design a better protocol to deal with victors shortcomings.

Great study, I did enjoy reading this, now I'll talk others into trying to figure out what they're saying

[Tom Yum]

Astral projection isn't teleportation.

Astral projection is baloney.

[Tom Yum]

This is not teleportation in the essence of this thread, It is teleporting data through light from seperate sources using quantum entanglement transversing physical medium. Unless somehow it got too expensive to make fiber optics, I cant see this technology reaching American homes. It would be a great way to communicate with sattelites, other planets, etc. That would be great to see it work. They still have to iron out the possibility of power fluctuations though. Also i read that for QOS and parity, there is a third part to this whole system named "Victor" problem is..victor has to be connected to both sending and recieving parties via classical (hardwired) means. They'll need to also design a better protocol to deal with victors shortcomings.

I'm sorta familiar with quantum entanglement . Glad that you read the article though. Haven't taken the electronic devices and apps class yet, but am salivating for it.

Let's have a closer look at the Victor problem.