martial artist = philosopher?

[Garland]

I would like to know exactly which martial art's do not have a philosophy!?

Do we do thing's for no reason...? I don't!

what do you do?
there is no rhym or reason to anything beyond our genetics, and our reaction to stimuli, over time or directly.
Things are inherent or learned, but there is nothing a priori except drawing breath, grasping at thin air, and sucking breasts for sustinence.
What comes about later is gene expression...

Philosophy, if you take it seriously, will reveal immediately (epistimology at least, which is the foundation) that nothing is certain, perceptions/ideas exist in the mind, and the corporeal world may not exist. Deductive logic can make non sensical things seem to be true...inductive logic is based upon sensory perception, and hence anything we draw from it we must assume is real...which you can't logically do.
Even if you could, to draw assumptions about the future (few seconds say) you would have to assume that the future will conform to the present and your past schema and knowledge of whatever.

So I say **** it.


Chew on that.
If you preach philosophy, at least know enough about it to comment.


everything has not just a philosophy, but more of a dogma...every martial art, every religion, pragmatic BS. Life is subjective...don't buy into what others tell you...think for yourself.

It's you perception and, hence, your world.

[shaolin-warrior]

everything has not just a philosophy, but more of a dogma...every martial art, every religion, pragmatic BS. Life is subjective...don't buy into what others tell you...think for yourself.

It's you perception and, hence, your world.

VERY WELL PUT.



I've known great fighters with no other philosophy than to survive at all costs.

[Oraenor]

i think that many great deticated martial artists seem to be philosophical. They have thier stern, somber appearence, and wisdom on life. is this some strange thought i just happen to have or do many martial artists begin becoming philosophical when they train. if so, is it by training alone and thinking on life and the human body or something?

Definition of Philosophy:

From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/philosophy
1. Love and pursuit of wisdom by intellectual means and moral self-discipline.
2. Investigation of the nature, causes, or principles of reality, knowledge, or values, based on logical reasoning rather than empirical methods.
3. A system of thought based on or involving such inquiry: the philosophy of Hume.
4. The critical analysis of fundamental assumptions or beliefs.
5. The disciplines presented in university curriculums of science and the liberal arts, except medicine, law, and theology.
6. The discipline comprising logic, ethics, aesthetics, metaphysics, and epistemology.
7. A set of ideas or beliefs relating to a particular field or activity; an underlying theory: an original philosophy of advertising.
8. A system of values by which one lives: has an unusual philosophy of life.


ART
From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/art

1. Human effort to imitate, supplement, alter, or counteract the work of nature.
2.
a. The conscious production or arrangement of sounds, colors, forms, movements, or other elements in a manner that affects the sense of beauty, specifically the production of the beautiful in a graphic or plastic medium.
b. The study of these activities.
c. The product of these activities; human works of beauty considered as a group.
3. High quality of conception or execution, as found in works of beauty; aesthetic value.
4. A field or category of art, such as music, ballet, or literature.
5. A nonscientific branch of learning; one of the liberal arts.
6.
a. A system of principles and methods employed in the performance of a set of activities: the art of building.
b. A trade or craft that applies such a system of principles and methods: the art of the lexicographer.
7.
a. Skill that is attained by study, practice, or observation: the art of the baker; the blacksmith's art.
b. Skill arising from the exercise of intuitive faculties: "Self-criticism is an art not many are qualified to practice" Joyce Carol Oates.
8.
a. arts Artful devices, stratagems, and tricks.
b. Artful contrivance; cunning.

SCIENCE
From http://www.thefreedictionary.com/science

1.
a. The observation, identification, description, experimental investigation, and theoretical explanation of phenomena.
b. Such activities restricted to a class of natural phenomena.
c. Such activities applied to an object of inquiry or study.
2. Methodological activity, discipline, or study: I've got packing a suitcase down to a science.
3. An activity that appears to require study and method: the science of purchasing.
4. Knowledge, especially that gained through experience.



I have tried to enforce this idea for a long time and finally I have found of group of people that think the same way! The word Arts have been debated buy a group of philosophers that I use to know and they tell me that it is basically the same meaning.

Arts is often mistaken as ONLY as asthetics which are 2 different things compared to philosophy and thus a has such connotation.Art's true meaning is in philosophy.

Art is therefore an innovation or concept 'science' which one has to think and investigate whether it be knowledge or logic.

In martial arts, we learn whatever we are taught, why we do things in a particular way and then we go out and investigate the idea of it.
This is not science however as there is no hypothesis and a solution at the end, just a contious evolution of ideas in our mind and body.

You are not wrong when you say that these guys are philosophers as they already are philosophers, just martial ones.Even the greatest philosophers (ie Aristotle) was a formidable martial artist.

Perhaps we should change the name from Martial Arts to Martial Philosophy to avoid future confusion. I am a student of MP!

Is it by training, you just answered your own question!

[gong fu]

Tell me the same thing when you do fight Roger.
I'd be interesting to hear your muffled B.S. spout from your lips when you're head's stuck firmly up your own ass.

How old are you, gong fu?
You need to lighten up...you ARE going to get yourself killed if you buy all the bullshit you've been fed.
Don't thank me...I'm looking out for you here.
You pick fights with people you really SHOULDN'T.

i.e. a Gracie.
When you send us the video feed, you can talk as much shit as you want. I'd eat my words if you beat him...but I doubt that's going to happen. More likely you'll be typing from a hospital bed.

lol garland your so ignorant and think you know everything its kinda funny but pointless. all what crap ive been fed? who has fed me crap and what crap is it exactly? and about roger i wont say anything about the fight or its outcome i dont know of its outcome it hasent happend fights are unpredictable, but funnily you seem to know of a fights outcome before it happens. i will record the fight with roger, and i will just for people like yourself post it here as soon as i can. you seem to think certain people are so good no1 who isnt "famous or known" can beat them, im not saying i will beat roger im not saying i will lose, i do though believe i cand efeat any man in a fair 1 on 1 fight, any skilled fighter can beat another man it all depends on the fight at the time dosent it, dont prejudge its a fools mistake, thats some advice your ass should take to the bank my friend, you have no advise for me from what ive seen so far, you dont know jack and you have got the martial arts all wrong, go and learn the basics froms cratch again and you might find your way. without the mind behind the brawn how can you prevail.

[Garland]

you seem to think certain people are so good no1 who isnt "famous or known" can beat them, im not saying i will beat roger im not saying i will lose, i do though believe i cand efeat any man in a fair 1 on 1 fight

how conceited is that?
You believe that you can beat any man in a fair one on one fight?
Define "fair"!

You're a systemma and CMA guy, right?
What's your record?
What's your experience?

Listen, it's not that I'm saying that it would be impossible for you to beat a Gracie, I'm just saying, I sure as **** wouldn't place a bet on you.

Roger Gracie is a very well accomplished and very knowledgeable fighter. His whole family has held a top rung in the martial arts world for a long time, they aren't unbeatable, but they are nothing to scoff at.

You, come out of nowhere, and claim that you're the new hot shit. Who the **** are you, anyway?

Man...if you win this fight, it still wouldn't mean shit, because in the end, you're still a pompous ass. You may win a few fights here and there, but to claim you can beat any man one on one?

21 years old? I'm 20. We're BOTH kids. I still know better than to cop that type of an attitude, because it will get you KILLED.
If you understood the severity and the levity of things, you would have more respect. If you truly were as good as you claim, you wouldn't talk as much shit. You just walk around with this macho facade because you have something to prove to yourself. Goodluck and Godspeed to that crap, but if you carry on like this...there's no point.

There are people in this world, friend, that would kill you for challenging them. It is that much of an affront to lose face.
Go to the Southeast Asia or the Phillipines. Go pick fights there.

You watch too many damn cartoons.

[Oraenor]

A man can think he is immortal, a demi god or a god for a lifetime but when one meets his greater or equal adversary at battle, there is nothing better than to get plummeted by his blows resulting in a pain that can only be explained by his taste in this new sadistic desire.This is the taste of honour.

[Oraenor]

how conceited is that?
You believe that you can beat any man in a fair one on one fight?
Define "fair"!

You're a systemma and CMA guy, right?
What's your record?
What's your experience?

Listen, it's not that I'm saying that it would be impossible for you to beat a Gracie, I'm just saying, I sure as **** wouldn't place a bet on you.

Roger Gracie is a very well accomplished and very knowledgeable fighter. His whole family has held a top rung in the martial arts world for a long time, they aren't unbeatable, but they are nothing to scoff at.

You, come out of nowhere, and claim that you're the new hot shit. Who the **** are you, anyway?

Man...if you win this fight, it still wouldn't mean shit, because in the end, you're still a pompous ass. You may win a few fights here and there, but to claim you can beat any man one on one?

21 years old? I'm 20. We're BOTH kids. I still know better than to cop that type of an attitude, because it will get you KILLED.
If you understood the severity and the levity of things, you would have more respect. If you truly were as good as you claim, you wouldn't talk as much shit. You just walk around with this macho facade because you have something to prove to yourself. Goodluck and Godspeed to that crap, but if you carry on like this...there's no point.

There are people in this world, friend, that would kill you for challenging them. It is that much of an affront to lose face.
Go to the Southeast Asia or the Phillipines. Go pick fights there.

You watch too many damn cartoons.

I hear you on this and its not just about the actual fight that goes on. Sure you can beat a guy up in a ring but what about later that night when you go out to the car park...thats reality and no amount of shaolin conditioning will protect you against a weirdo that bumps into you with an infected needle.

This is why i hate fighting, not because of the duration of the battle but the after effects of it.

[gong fu]

ok maybe you guys are just different to me, face it im me your you. we will agree to disagree its pointless actually arguing, and i stick by what i said till the day i die, i ahve the ability to beat anyone in a 1 on 1 fight. yes every real fighter has the ability to win against another fighter when its a one on one fight, i obviously havent grew up like you guys, ive been raised a fighter and i will most likely die a fighter, and so be it i accept that as my fate. death is unnavoidable and if i go out fighting thats just how it is isnt it. no point of having fear inside you, i fear nothing i fear no man, i will be honest and to the point about this blunt as can be, all my life i have had to fight my area is rough ive had so many fights outside of my martial arts training that i haent seent he need to fight in competitions because i fight enough as it is just defending myself my honor and people i care about and love. maybe you dont know what its like to grow up in an area with extream violence at every corner of your life. all through school its a battle with other crews since like the age of 6, ont he streets pointless wars over drug terrotory and other shit thats stupid, near death experiences, living a rough warriors lifestyle breaks down the fear inside you, maybe you think some1 is near unbeatable but i dont, i judge a man at the time of the fight, not before or after, i want to put my years of training into the modern martiala rts worl to test myself, how is confidence in your own ability bragging or bieng foolish? you need confidence in fighting, maybe you have none because you think your nobody, but i have confidence in myself my beliefs and my way of life, and it will prevail if i try hard enough. if i lose to roger i will just try even harder in training and have a rematch untill im proud of myself. you guys judge people who you havent even seen fight again ile say this its foolish to prejudge. im not underestimating anybody when it comes to fighting real warriors know not to underestimate anyone no matter how decieving it might seem to be.

[Oraenor]

ok maybe you guys are just different to me, face it im me your you. we will agree to disagree its pointless actually arguing, and i stick by what i said till the day i die, i ahve the ability to beat anyone in a 1 on 1 fight. yes every real fighter has the ability to win against another fighter when its a one on one fight, i obviously havent grew up like you guys, ive been raised a fighter and i will most likely die a fighter, and so be it i accept that as my fate. death is unnavoidable and if i go out fighting thats just how it is isnt it. no point of having fear inside you, i fear nothing i fear no man, i will be honest and to the point about this blunt as can be, all my life i have had to fight my area is rough ive had so many fights outside of my martial arts training that i haent seent he need to fight in competitions because i fight enough as it is just defending myself my honor and people i care about and love. maybe you dont know what its like to grow up in an area with extream violence at every corner of your life. all through school its a battle with other crews since like the age of 6, ont he streets pointless wars over drug terrotory and other shit thats stupid, near death experiences, living a rough warriors lifestyle breaks down the fear inside you, maybe you think some1 is near unbeatable but i dont, i judge a man at the time of the fight, not before or after, i want to put my years of training into the modern martiala rts worl to test myself, how is confidence in your own ability bragging or bieng foolish? you need confidence in fighting, maybe you have none because you think your nobody, but i have confidence in myself my beliefs and my way of life, and it will prevail if i try hard enough. if i lose to roger i will just try even harder in training and have a rematch untill im proud of myself. you guys judge people who you havent even seen fight again ile say this its foolish to prejudge. im not underestimating anybody when it comes to fighting real warriors know not to underestimate anyone no matter how decieving it might seem to be.

a. I did not say such a thing
b. UK is nowhere as dangerous as a 3rd world country.My friend comes from Columbia with no martial experience but I bet he can make you cry because he fights dirty.
c. I have confidence in my skills and I have the confidence that I can beat you BUT I know the after effects so I dont do shit like that. I have faced someone like you at training before and that person has not returned to training ever since I gave him a cut lip and a lumpy face.
d.You underestimate the after effects and stay with your "honour" ideals.Nobody is honorable, all they deserve is if they live or hurt.
e. Elaborate your ideas rather than to insult people, you will learn nothing if you keep this up
f. These forums are for sharing idea, not for your own braggin benifits
g.Why dont you move if you have to fight everyday...gee its just a place to sleep and eat, its not that hard to move!
h. Never underestimate anyone is correct but you have underestimated your opponent after a match and assumes that he is honourable.
i. Dont be so insecure that you have to prove yourself everywhere.People dont like try hards!

[jubaji]

otaku

i stick by what i said till the day i die, i ahve the ability to beat anyone in a 1 on 1 fight.

That settles it. We now know for sure that you have never been in a fight in your pampered little life, you illiterate, juvenile shit.

[BoarSpear]

Gong Fu, The major point is its your youth and inexperience/arrogance that people see first. Ask ANY 40 plus year old martial artist who has been training since childhood and he will remember being you. Usually at some point between 17-21 you decide you are faster, stronger and smarter than the rest of the pack. IF you live through this fantasy by the time youre 40 or so you realize how lucky you were you never fought anyone worth a damn.

[BoarSpear]

there is a reason people talk about young lions...youre it you roar entirely to loudly....keep that shit up and a big old lions gonna steal yer women and yer lunch.

[gong fu]

wow even you boarspear cannot see what i was getting at, thats supprising, i will still stick by what i believe in it has gotten me through alot of tough times, i can beat anyone and dont fear people, be cautios yes but afraid no, boarspear you must know in a one on one fight that any fighter has the chance to be the victor, that was my whole point, yes i am young yes maybe seem arrogant with my text that you see, but i am not arrogent i know when im beaten thats when i cant get up to fight anymore, i have lost many fights on the street and while training with people. but i never ever went into a fight thinking i was gonna get my ass whooped when its one on one, i always think i have a chance, i know that many many fighters are more experienced than myself and actually just better fighters than me, but i still know what i can do.

and for jubaji i wont talk much about that comment, but seriously man what are you talking about pampered i grew up hard you dont know the half, and i wont start saying how many fights ive had i actually dont know, but dont say things liek that because its seriously just wrong lol. you dont know me or my life. i wont hold a grudge against any comments people make about me i dont really care i visit this forum for tips and knowledge not petty squables. not everyone is the same realise tis people aint all like you.

[Oraenor]

there is a reason people talk about young lions...youre it you roar entirely to loudly....keep that shit up and a big old lions gonna steal yer women and yer lunch.

meow!

No seriously this gong fu chaps just recieved his biggest lesson if he accepts it.Now he can pack up his dragon ball Z dolls and smell reality.

[jubaji]

and for jubaji i wont talk much about that comment, but seriously man what are you talking about pampered i grew up hard.

Now I know that's not true because you haven't grown up yet, punk.