Controvertial subject

[Oraenor]

This is very religiously controvertial so dont read on if you are like religious.
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I have been thinking that eastern martial arts are failing in quality due to Christianity. Somehow christian values stop you from thinking further more beyond your actions ie. Do not kill etc. Since the introduction of christianity into the eastern cultures, there has been a significant drop in quality of fine martial arts of the east, a fine example of this is TKD and karatae as korea and japan are the countries majorly affected by this new growing fad into christianity. Dont get me wrong, I have nothing against christianity but thinking about it more, the introduction of christianity has some what diminished the quality of the art, whether the influence is in the laws (dont tell me christianity has no influence in the laws) or the teachings altogether. Christianity itself is not a good basis for any martial arts as it restricts you from actually thinking about thinking ahead where as religions like buddhism despite teaches more into peace and passiveness lets you think ahead and consequences ahead. I know christianity is not the sole problem to the diminishing of the arts but never the less, in my opinion has affected it negatively. What do you guys think?

[eXcessiveForce]

I think advanced weaponry, increased rule of law, commercialization, and a quick fix society are more likely causes.

Christianity has nothing to do with the shaolin monks.

I don't find anything in christianity limiting to martial arts. Do not kill is actually not the translation it is "thou shalt not be guilty of innocent blood" It has nothing to do with defending oneself.

Also the christian forces were very effective in battle.

Perhaps a broader perspective would aid you if this is a topic you really interested in.

[Tom Yum]

I have been thinking that eastern martial arts are failing in quality due to Christianity. Somehow christian values stop you from thinking further more beyond your actions ie. Do not kill etc. Since the introduction of christianity into the eastern cultures, there has been a significant drop in quality of fine martial arts of the east, a fine example of this is TKD and karatae as korea and japan are the countries majorly affected by this new growing fad into christianity. Dont get me wrong, I have nothing against christianity but thinking about it more, the introduction of christianity has some what diminished the quality of the art, whether the influence is in the laws (dont tell me christianity has no influence in the laws) or the teachings altogether. ?

No offense taken, because you are saying what you sincerely believe. Can you cite examples of how Christianity has directly inhibited the growth or development of east Asian Martial Arts? Is this happening in Australia?

East Asian arts were very popular here in the states until other Asian and Western arts began showing more realistic results. It has nothing to do with Christianity or religion in general.

Muay thai, jujitsu, arnis/kali are East Asian arts that have become more pronounced in the 90's. Boxing and wrestling are Western arts. All which have gained more attention in the past 15 years because of their more realistic training methods and results on the mat/ring/street.

JKD is a combination of both, I guess.

Christianity itself is not a good basis for any martial arts as it restricts you from actually thinking about thinking ahead where as religions like buddhism despite teaches more into peace and passiveness lets you think ahead and consequences ahead. What do you guys think?

It would be more helpfull if you could cite specific versus in the Bible that explicitly state Christians shouldn't think about consequences ahead.

I know very little about Buddhism but if its a peacfull and passive as it claims, then good for it and good for you for being a practitioner. Buddhists seem like compassionate people.

[Tom Yum]

Japan & South Korea

I think the traditional arts like karate and tkd are loosing out in sheer popularity against kickboxing, pankration and MMA in these countries, rather than religious reasons.

Kickboxing is as huge in Japan as football is in the states or football in Europe. For example, Bob Sapp may have allmost become a house hold name to many Japanese. Naturally, if kids see this they too will want to train in kickboxing.

Pride FC is based in Japan and is huge. The MMA craze hasn't stopped in Japan, there are also Korean circuits of course the most famous is the giant Korean fighter Chong.

[Penance]

I'm an atheist. All I'll say is this: correlation does not imply causation.

[jubaji]

whoa...

Kickboxing is as huge in Japan as football is in the states or football in Europe.

Not quite that big, but it is popular.

[npk9]

I think advanced weaponry, increased rule of law, commercialization, and a quick fix society are more likely causes.

Christianity has nothing to do with the shaolin monks.

I don't find anything in christianity limiting to martial arts. Do not kill is actually not the translation it is "thou shalt not be guilty of innocent blood" It has nothing to do with defending oneself.

Also the christian forces were very effective in battle.

Perhaps a broader perspective would aid you if this is a topic you really interested in.

I would have to second that.

[gong fu]

This is very religiously controvertial so dont read on if you are like religious.
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.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
.
I have been thinking that eastern martial arts are failing in quality due to Christianity. Somehow christian values stop you from thinking further more beyond your actions ie. Do not kill etc. Since the introduction of christianity into the eastern cultures, there has been a significant drop in quality of fine martial arts of the east, a fine example of this is TKD and karatae as korea and japan are the countries majorly affected by this new growing fad into christianity. Dont get me wrong, I have nothing against christianity but thinking about it more, the introduction of christianity has some what diminished the quality of the art, whether the influence is in the laws (dont tell me christianity has no influence in the laws) or the teachings altogether. Christianity itself is not a good basis for any martial arts as it restricts you from actually thinking about thinking ahead where as religions like buddhism despite teaches more into peace and passiveness lets you think ahead and consequences ahead. I know christianity is not the sole problem to the diminishing of the arts but never the less, in my opinion has affected it negatively. What do you guys think?

hmm i actually couldent disagree with what your saying atall there man,

[white devil]

The place of religion in society? lets not go there because we'll never get to an agreement...

Presently,like youre saying,relgion is probably''limiting'' martial arts..But then again,most martial arts evolved from religions didnt they?

for example,why are muay thai practionners doing all thoses fancy movements before a fight?its part of their culture and religion..youre free to beleive in what you want and absorb what you think is right for you.

i,myself do not beleive in religions..why? because i dont think i should follow something someone decided to write in a book 2000 more or less years ago to guide my life..and most of us dont get to chose our religions(or decide to have none) at birth,which is wrong...

I tolerate religion and accept it as a big part of history.. but i beleive adepts of any religions should keep it where it belongs..to themselves

if religion were to detach completly from martial arts i wouldnt considere it a bad thing..then would it damage the art? would not praying buddha and not dancing around wearing a sacred headband affect your performance?..depends if you really beleive in it..then it might maybe?

what youre considering ''religion'' in most martial arts is more of ''traditional culture'' which is part of the history of the art..

My friend trains in white crane kung fu for 3 years now and when i asked him why the hell youre practicing holding a sword when youre not never gonna fight with it..he told me that it was just pure tradition and he just felt like mastering it to understand more deeply the art...was his choice to do so..so is yours to reject the all the ''mumbo-jumbo''and concentrate on the more concrete aspect of the discipline.

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[Troll Virus]

Presently,like youre saying,relgion is probably''limiting'' martial arts..But then again,most martial arts evolved from religions didnt they?

No.
That martial arts were evolved by people who had some religious/ethical belief or other would be largely true, as the further back in time you go, the more religion was important.
However, the idea of acquiring skill, and using it to acheive dominance over other individuals, clearly pre-dates religion of any kind.

[GQchris]

I don't think Christianity affects fighters, professional fighters, unless they let it.. I mean look at guys like Matt Hughes, I don't think the fact that he is a born again Christian has made him any less effective in the octagon..

[GQchris]

Isn't the "Axe Murderer" Wanderlei Silva a Christian? I have heard him from time to time reference his faith..

[GQchris]

By the same token I could do without the "religious aspects" of Martial Arts as well, take for example the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, loved the book, but I could have done without the Buddhist philosophy as well..

[Troll Virus]

take for example the Tao of Jeet Kune Do, loved the book, but I could have done without the Buddhist philosophy as well..

I don't know that I'd call that religious.
Philosophy has value without the context of religion.
As the 'Tao' is simply a collection of notes ordered posthumously, I simply don't see any religious agenda therein (other than, here's a whole load of stuff to work on to better yourself).

[white devil]

don't know that I'd call that religious.
Philosophy has value without the context of religion.
As the 'Tao' is simply a collection of notes ordered posthumously, I simply don't see any religious agenda therein (other than, here's a whole load of stuff to work on to better yourself).

What about the introduction taoist poem?The Zen philosophies? The buddhism ''eight fold path'',the path to truth?Also alot of Bruce's mentality was somehow related to taoist monks'.

Correct me if i'm wrong,but isn't buddhism a religion?..And if Bruce Lee founded Jeet Kune do by inspiring himself from the taoist mentality doesn't that make JKD an art which it's roots are somewhat religious?We can say Jeet Kune Do moved away from religion to focus on more concrete and technical aspects (even though we still hear some ''more philosophicaly religious'' thinking),yet it was still religious at one point.

I think the buddhist aspect of the tao of jeet kune do is very inspiring and complements it in a wonderful way...but don't say it's not religion!