Suffering

[treelizard]

You're proving my point.

[Tom Yum]

You're proving my point.

Your topic isn't worth one

But other ladies topics are

[treelizard]

http://www.kidshealth.org/kid/feel_better/people/going_to_therapist.html

[Tom Yum]

http://www.kidshealth.org/kid/feel_b...therapist.html

Personal referral you've turned to, I assume.

[treelizard]

Personal referral, I assume.

My last one for you to provide your friends with:

http://www.psychpage.com/family/library/angry.html

[Tom Yum]

My last one for you:
http://www.psychpage.com/family/library/angry.html

I appreciate your personal referrals of online psychological help, but I really think you should see a real therapist

[Tom Yum]

Tree, all things set aside in this post, I think your original idea is a valid point and yes it is a good one The issue at hand doesn't require her to pay $250 per hour for someone to agree with her, its simpler than that.

Update: She's already started doing what she knew she needed to in the first place.

Now, back to the original post. And in all seriousness, what do you make of suffering? Its meaning? Reasons for it?

[treelizard]

I appreciate your personal referrals of online psychological help, but I really think you should see a real therapist

I don't need any help regaining my self-confidence and health, but if I did need help, I'd be more likely to go to a professional than to ask people over the internet.

As far as suffering, Kahlil Gibran said "Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” And Rumi wrote a beautiful poem called "Grapes of My Body" that talks about suffering in a whole new light: "The grapes of my body can only become wine after the winemaker tramples me. I surrender my spirit like grapes to His trampling." But I also think suffering for the sake of suffering is stupid. And anyone who says other people haven't suffered enough needs to get over that... I think it was C.P. Estes who said that there's a potential trap in identifying with who we were in the most terrible times of our lives. It creates a limiting mindset. It's not good to base your identity on what you lost and gained during bad times, you need to go beyond that stage (and not wish it on others.) One of my herb teachers was talking about the drought one year and he talked about how a little adversity in a tree's life, just like in a man's life, could make it stronger, but too much could weaken them. Makes sense. So I think it's okay to reduce stress and suffering... And I think a lot of suffering is self-imposed, anyway.

That's it for now.

[Tom Yum]

As far as suffering, Kahlil Gibran said "Out of suffering have emerged the strongest souls; the most massive characters are seared with scars.” And Rumi wrote a beautiful poem called "Grapes of My Body" that talks about suffering in a whole new light: "The grapes of my body can only become wine after the winemaker tramples me. I surrender my spirit like grapes to His trampling." But I also think suffering for the sake of suffering is stupid. And anyone who says other people haven't suffered enough needs to get over that... I think it was C.P. Estes who said that there's a potential trap in identifying with who we were in the most terrible times of our lives. It creates a limiting mindset. It's not good to base your identity on what you lost and gained during bad times, you need to go beyond that stage (and not wish it on others.) One of my herb teachers was talking about the drought one year and he talked about how a little adversity in a tree's life, just like in a man's life, could make it stronger, but too much could weaken them. Makes sense. So I think it's okay to reduce stress and suffering... And I think a lot of suffering is self-imposed, anyway.

That's it for now.

As I mentioned before, it was a conversation that I heard that brought this topic up which made me think about the topic itself.

Your grape analogy is nice, Tree. And I agree alot of suffering is self-imposed; we can chose how we will feel and what we will do.

I like the coal -> diamond analogy as well.

Heat and pressure on a sorry lump of coal create some of the most beautiful and toughest substances in the world. Even then, the sparkle that puts a smile in some woman's eye is caused by little imperfections on the surface.

Anyhow, some of the workouts we did last year involved suffering in terms of physical pain and mental tenacity - the product being improved physical health, energy, alertness etc.

[Tom Yum]

People who think they are merely trying to selfishly help their friends with their life and problems more often than not are all the while imagining the payoff for their good deeds once their friend recognizes how great they are. Whether they admit it to themselves or others or not.

Does this sound like you?

You would never give without the expectations of receiving something directly beneficial whether tangible or intangible

and

Selfless giving is probably "silly" in your opinion without the expectation of getting something in return.

I give most of the time because I can make a difference and most of the time I don't ask for anything in return.

I don't ask for rent when I let a needy friend stay for a while, nor do I ask for grocery moneys when I cook for them. I don't take tax deductions when I make small donations since the money is theirs when I hand it over and neither do I need to make them public. If someone needs a job, I'll try my best to help them out even if its out of my areas of work.

Sure my friends jab at me and make fun of me now and then, sometimes they turn on you but as a friend, they know when the chips are down and everyone else has left, I might be the last one standing. Sometimes its frightening...

What kind of friend are you, Tree?

I'm not challenging you here ; people can be friends in different ways.

[treelizard]

I'm a good enough friend to realize when somebody would be better served discussing their problems with a paid professional than relying on internet surveys....

What kind of friend are you, Tree?

[treelizard]

Does this sound like you?

You would never give without the expectations of receiving something directly beneficial whether tangible or intangible

and

Selfless giving is probably "silly" in your opinion without the expectation of getting something in return.

No, I don't think selfless giving is silly. I am, however, astute enough to realize that many people who claim to be giving selflessly often have other motives.

Referring someone to a professional is sometimes the selfless thing you can do. Letting your homeless friends move in for a while, cooking for them and giving them money can be extremely selfish and often doesn't help the person. I had a good friend who was getting kicked out of yet another apartment and not working who wanted to crash on my couch for a while, and I told him no because he wasn't doing anything to get out of his situation. He wasn't even on food stamps or taking care of his medical problems. So I told him no, and now he is in school and working full-time again. Voila. I think I helped him more that way, and by referring him to people that could help him (free clinics, places that were hiring, the food stamp office, etc.)

[Tom Yum]

I'm a good enough friend to realize when somebody would be better served discussing their problems with a paid professional than relying on internet surveys....

Here you go projecting assumptions before really engaging the topic or getting more circumstances about the situation.

[Tom Yum]

No, I don't think selfless giving is silly. I am, however, astute enough to realize that many people who claim to be giving selflessly often have other motives.

This is true, but that's a bold assumption to make on persons you know little about.

[treelizard]

Here you go projecting assumptions before really engaging the topic or getting more circumstances about the situation...

I'm not interested in the circumstances of your situation.