Some basic, but Important questions for Sifu.

[WTG]

Hello SIfu Burton,

I have two questions that I have been wanting to ask you.
I hope you don't mind.

#1 What has Guro Dan had to say about your views on trapping and Kali etc...

#2 What is the "correct" name of what We "DO" in JKDU?
is it JKD? JKDU? or HPMA? And what's the difference?


Ok, sorry one more :-)

Guro Dan will be in my city next month. Now normally, I would jump at the chance to train with him as I think he is
incredible! And over the years I have, traveling from state to state etc...

But now I find myself unmotivated to go! Not because of the man, but because of the topics! I just am not interested in lock flows, trapping combo's kali drills etc.. ANy advice?

Because somehow I feel so "wrong" for not wanting to go! LOL!

Thanks so much.

-Rick

[Burton]

Hi Rick,
What we "do" is difficult to name, but for simplicity I refer to it as JKDU or HPMA. As you know, the way we train is very different than the way many others in the JKD family choose to train, so it can be misleading to simply say we do JKD. As a matter of fact, I have had many people who actually watch our training tell me how surprised they are because they thought it would consist of a lot of trapping and sensitivity drills, when they actually wanted to train more realistically. Our organization is getting a good reputation for being reality based, however, and the name JKD Unlimited is often referred to when people bring up the topic of functional martial arts. We have to keep spreading the word so more people know.
I spoke to Sifu Inosanto a few months ago about our direction. Of course, some people tell him that I say bad things about him and his teaching, which is absolutely incorrect. I have such respect for him. I spent 18 years under his direct tutelage. How could I not have complete respect for him. He knows that I prefer different drills for preparing to deal with an aggressive attacker. Sifu Inosanto prefers to teach many aspects of many arts so that he can help people with a variety of goals in the martial arts. That is what he loves to do, and I am very happy that he trained me in so many different methods. I think he has some reservations about going so far into the functional, but he supports me. He wouldn't be a JKDU advisor if he didn't want to help us out.
About going to the seminar. That is a tough one. I understand that you have great respect for Sifu I, but the topics of this particular seminar are not appealing to you. That is going to have to be your choice entirely. You could go and ask him particular questions about defending against a NHB fighter from various positions, or ask how he would train you if you were going to fight in a Dog Brother Gathering. I am sure that he would spend some time on those subjects, and you may get some good insights.
Good questions. Keep them coming. As always, everyone else is invited and encouraged to give their opinions.

[Burton]

One more thing. Don't feel "wrong" about your hesitancy to attend the seminar. It is not being disloyal, it is just the topic. If I taught a seminar on Silat Dance and you didn't attend, I would not feel offended. I have lots of students from my previous teaching method who do not train with me anymore. We all like each other, but they just don't care for the new "topic" of training with resistance.

[WTG]

Great!

Great replies thanks!

Thats exactly how I feel about Sifu I!
Ya know what though, sometimes I miss alot of that stuff.
All the trapping progressions, silat stuff, stick and sensitivity drills. There is an appeal in some way to collect alot of that stuff and play with it. I remember very well, being SOOO excited before a seminar because maybe I would learn a new progression or drill or whatever or new count. It was darn fun!

I can only imagine being as well versed as you are, what it must of took to strip down like you did! I remember one time
exactly, I was training Chi Sao,and working trapping in combination.Then I said to my friend, lets spar. And I couldn't trap. SUre I got off a pak and lop and jut sometime, but I Never got that second hand! Not when footwork boxing and grappling was involved. But man, I looked pretty darn good from a reference point! LOL!

Well that night I popped in one of YOUR old tapes (which were great BTW) and seen you teaching trapping, and I remember, I thought, man that guy is lucky. Training with who he does.. I imagined all the after class hours with Sifu I, or Pendeker Paul. I thought, man I wonder what he knows that I don't, how is it that he can make this work and Sifu Dan can do it, and paul Vunak says he does it all the time!

I ended up saying to myself, well Rick, just keep training... Then at a certin point, I just stopped complex trapping, because I just didn't believe in it. I took alot of flack for that... And in a way, I felt like I gave up. Maybe just one more seminar, or a trip to Cali. Then it would all come together...

Burton,when you came out and said you couldn't do multipal traps in sparring and all the stuff you said regarding sticks, Man,I felt SO good! LOL! And angry! Angry at myself, for not trusting myself, MY experience. I mean, *I* was finding out for myself, through experience the truth. But I was allowing my reality to be defined by "some Guy" on a video! Or "some Guy" at a seminar! I vowed to never do that again. thats why our Gym motto is truth through experience.When I started to believe in myself, thats when my life started to change.

Word is spreading around town about our Gym and the way we train, people come in from way on the other side of town. I ask them, how did you find out about us? They say word of mouth... It is always positive. Just by being true to ourselves and training real, we are making a big noise.. Kind of cool..

Thanks again for the reply, I appreciate it!

-Rick

[Burton]

You may know that I went through the same thing. For years, I just figured that I couldn't actually apply many techniques because "I wasn't good enough". Someday, if I keep doing chi sao and hubad, I will be able to actually be good enough at this trapping or stick technique to use it. After years of this, I started to hear about my reputation as "one of the best trappers". (Not my assessment, but that of many JKD instructors. After a few years of this, I started to ask myself, "If I am one of the best trappers, and I can't make it work, who can?" I started to realize that I had never seen ANYONE apply it in real sparring. If the opponent is aggressive, then the trapping is just not going to happen. Compound trapping works well against a passive opponent, but most of us aren't going to run into a "Passive Attacker". (This is definitely an oxymoron.) I too started to realize that I should rely on my own experience, instead of merely having faith in the many martial arts fables that are out there.
Speaking of the trapping stories, there are many tales about guys using compound trapping in bar fights. How could that be? Here is what I believe to be true. Trapping works if someone is not striking, and basically has his hands up in a defensive position. Now, suppose you go into a bar looking to test out your JKD. This makes you the aggressor. Now, do you think this type of JKD thug is going to look for the biggest, strongest guy in the bar? I think not. He is looking for an easy target, preferably one who has been drinking. As one senior student told me back in the old Torrance school in 1980, "He doesn't want to get into a fight, he wants to beat someone up." Now, if the JKD thug picks a fight with this pushover, and starts attacking, the target is probably going to be frightened, and put up his hands defensively. Perfect trapping situation. If you want to train trapping to beat up victims in a bar, then it may work well for you. For those of us who want to use our training to better ourselves, and have viable options if we become the target, then classical trapping is going to be way down the list of training priorities.
That was long, but the point is to trust your own experiences, then keep testing and see if others are getting the same results.

[WTG]

Amen!

< That was long, but the point is to trust your own experiences, then keep testing and see if others are getting the same results. >>

Amen!

-Rick

[Stephen Mullins]

Trapping

Simple Traps -- okay, once in a while

Complex or Compound Traps -- once in a lifetime

I can tell you from more than 25 years of martial arts experience that the stand-up striking techniques I can pull off time and time again are:

1) Left Jab; 2) Right Cross; 3) Left Hook; 4) Right Uppercut; 5) Left Push Kick; 6) Right Push Kick; 7) Left Skip (or Switch) Thai Kick; 8) Left and Right Savate Groin Kick; 9) Right Thai Kick; 10) Right Long Knee; 11) Pruumb and skip knees; 12) and Elbows (all kinds, including spinning elbow, believe it or not)...

I can use right pak sao and left punch with a lot of success as well as left lop sao and right punch...After that I either continue punching (a la straight blast), kick, or clinch to throw knees...

I have never pulled off a secondary trap against a sparring opponent -- never!! I, too, used to think that maybe after years of practicing I could become a successful "trapper"....I really think that if it were going to happen, it would have happened to me somewhere along the way....

My thoughts....try it yourself and see...

Walk on,

Steve

[WTG]

Thanks Steve!

Thanks for the reply Steve,

I agree, the simple fact seems to be that BASICALLY, Muay Thai/Boxing-savate for stand up, Muay Thai-Greco-Judo-sambo for clinch, Jiu Jitsu-wrestling(catch-hooking..)-judo-Shoot
for the ground!

Added to that, maybe some basic things from wing chun-kali- silat. Like pak, lop, blast, gunting's, trips and sweeps. But those are add-on's to the core basics. And those add-on's happen about 5-15% of the time in my experience...

It has been said before, that people who really spar/fight, will end up doing a similar form of martial arts as outlined above. I think that alot of "JKD" people are worried that they are no longer special. In the sense that "we trap, no one else knows it" or Bruce lee had "special" ways to kick and punch, or the Jun Fan "structure". That way, holding on to that,, they feel different, like they have some secret, they are above other arts...

This is no different than the OLD days when people who took Karate thought they could kill with one punch! Of course they would never prove it, that would be barbaric. Then Joe Lewis took them to school when he fought Bains!

I think Matt Thornton hit the nail on the head when he was talking about the mentality of alot of these people. They are the kind that like Star Trek conventions, and clubs etc... People who in secret wish they could learn an ancient technique to in one swift move of the hand, beat up the High School Jock that picked on them...

They go through life afraid and resentful... never facing their weak points and fear. Looking for the easy way, the magic. Well, the magic is in the sweat! In the training as everyone on this board knows!

Really man, how cool is it when you get that technique you have been working on, on someone who is being totally resistant. And you start to get it more and more often. I personally think it feels great! LOL!

But the ONLY way to get that feeling is to also experience missing the technique over and over again! It's tough to want to try something your not so good at, knowing you are going to fail for a while. It is much easier to do only what you can aleady do.

Being a teacher it's even harder! When your starting out, you actually learn. WHy? because you accept that your going to fail. Heck, no one expects you to be any good, your just starting! SO what happens? You grow and gain some skill. But get that Black Belt, or instructorship, and BAM! On go the brakes! WHy? Because now, people are expecting you to know something, to be good!

It's all a mind game... This whole thing...

-Rick