Macho Helmets...

[WTG]

Hi guys,

I wonder about the rest of you, how you feel about the macho cage? I know both you Burton and Matt have used these as the go to helmet in sparring, and at first I loved them too.

But, about 8 months in all of my cages are starting to go! The bars are moving and bending and twice have cause minor cuts to two peoples noses!

It is my experience that these cages just break down when you spar with them often. And for the price, IMHO it's not worth it and dangerous!

For years, I simply used Boxing head gear, so now, I think I am just going to buy some face saver headgear from ringside. That and some stick head gear for stick and knife.

The cages we have left (I have eight) I will use simply for padded stick drills and sparring.

Has anyone else had any problems like this? The bars also bend and hit the nose when I spar people hard (which we do every month or two, most of the time we spar 60-80%)

Just wondering...

-Rick

[Jim McRae]

There are three factors that determine the quality of every manufactured item: (1) design (2) materials and (3) workmanship.

I think that the Macho headgear has a fantastic design and features decent workmanship in its manufacture. However, I believe that the materials are the headgear's essential shortcoming. I, too, have had trouble with the headgear holding up under hard sparring. The symptoms are as follows:

(1) The black paint on the face cage has worn off, allowing the cage to rust.
(2) The cage is noticeable flattened after the hard contact made in sparring.
(3) The foam on the inside of the facecage around the chin area is split in many places, which makes it irritating to wear in sparring. I used some wetsuit adhesive to repair this, but it still scratches annoyingly.
(4) The velcro closures that hold the headgear in place and that hold the facecage on the headgear have all worn out, so that the headgear regularly slips off during sparring (particularly grappling).

I have only had the MVP for two years, and it is on its last legs. It first exhibited problems towards the end of the first year that I owned it. I have seen few sets of headgear that are as well-designed as the MVP, and I believe it is this quality of design that has drawn Burton to it. I just wish that the materials and workmanship were as top-notch as the design.

Has anyone tried Tony Blauer's High Gear? I have seen Burton endorse Blauer's system before in advertisements, but how about the armor? From what I have heard, the High Gear is awesome, but it costs a fortune.

Take care and train hard,
Jim McRae

[WTG]

Same here...

Hi Jim,

yep same as me, all that you have mentioned. Same spots and problems...

At first I thought these helmets were great, but oh well, really they are not made for what we do. I'll stick with ringside until something better comes along.

thanks Jim!


-Rick

[Burton]

As good as those helmets are, they do wear out. My first one is cracked at the chin, and the cage is somewhat mis-shapen, and the velcro is on its last legs. But, better than those black eyes and cuts that I dealt with in the past. Also, they are great for those who want to spar, but aren't willing to fight without face protection. I have not tried Tony Blauer's, but the helmet reminds me of the old FIST gear. The FIST gear face shield would bend and cut the nose when hit hard. Enjoy!

[Jim McRae]

Another sad chapter in the life of the Macho MVP. Tonight, I was knife sparring in class and both my partner and I were wearing headgear and using padded training knives. I was fighting in an icepick (reverse) grip and stabbed my partner in the head with an angle 2 thrust. The tip of the training knife went through one of the ventilation holes in top of the headgear and actually CUT his head (sorry, Cameron!). We had to compress it for about 10-15 minutes to stop the bleeding. The moral of this story is that we should all be extra careful when stick or knife sparring with the Macho headcages, because the vent holes leave openings for weapons to penetrate.

Take care and train hard,
Jim

[WTG]

Ya know,

this stuff is too dangerous! Maybe we should invent "drills" to simulate real fighting, that way we can come as close as we can but retain the safty factor... LOL!!! And the circle closes...


What I have been thinking is this. Look at the cage. What is the problem? It breaks down because of the material. What if we find someone who knows how to weld and has a welder in his garage
he can use the macho cage as a model, and use better bars (maybe a little thicker) and weld them better and use some anti rust paint!

Then we can modify some boxing head gear so that we can attach the cage! I am looking into this with a few friends. My Frankenstein head gear may not work, but then again it just may

We will see...


-Rick

[Morné]

Hi Guys,

Before spending too much time welding Burglar Bars in the front of your Macho's why don't you just try and improve your footwork, body movement and defences to try and get hit less in the head !!!!

Enjoy

Morne

[Jim McRae]

"Before spending too much time welding Burglar Bars in the front of your Macho's why don't you just try and improve your footwork, body movement and defenses to try and get hit less in the head"

Wow, it sounds like your skills are so good that you don't need to wear any headgear. For the rest of us mortals, I think we'll keep the helmets in place, thanks.

All kidding aside, if you aren't ever getting hit in the head in sparring, you probably aren't sparring with anyone of a remotely challenging skill level. Many professional boxers wear headgear when they train, and their defensive skills are better than most of ours. The reason that they wear it is because their sparring partners (and opponents in the ring) are of a high enough skill level that they do often get hit. So, while we do need to work on our footwork and defensive skills, damaged headgear should not be interpreted as a sign of clumsiness in technique. Rather, it is a sign that the individual is training hard, sparring hard, and continually trying new things in sparring in an effort to better him/herself.

Take care and train hard,
Jim

[Morné]

Hey Jim,

Don't be too serious man. I was only Joking. If you ever visit Africa you will see that the guys here spar really hard in all the ranges. Open invitation.

Have a great day.
Morne

[Jim McRae]

Hi, Morné:

Glad to hear you were only joking. I thought for a second that you were going for the jugular. My message was not intended as a flame; only as a counter-argument to the one I thought was being posed above. I hope no offense was taken. If I am ever in the neighborhood, I would love to train with you in South Africa.

Take care and train hard,
Jim

[Morné]

Hi Jim,

No Offense just functional defense
My opinion is that the Macho headgears are really great, but i still look forward training with you guys with your welded bars on

Take Care Jim and keep up the hards training.

Kindest Regards
Morne