FILIPINO MARTIAL ARTS;for show or combat?

[lionleo]

I cannot halp but notice the division of practitioners here in the US. A good number are pretty serious with their KALI..but a lot of clubs merely show forms and for show.
So here goes my question..Who among you practices KALi for show or for combat?
Thanks.

[RapidAssault16]

I cannot halp but notice the division of practitioners here in the US. A good number are pretty serious with their KALI..but a lot of clubs merely show forms and for show.
So here goes my question..Who among you practices KALi for show or for combat?
Thanks.

I train in Kali/Arnis for combative purposes mainly...which is why I've stripped down the angles of attack in my personal style to only 7 strikes with the stick that I found are the most commonly used when the fur is flying and the adrenaline is pumping. There isn't much of the stick-twirling stuff in my training. Everything is basic, basic, and more basic. The emphasis is on footwork, bodily mechanics, aggression, will to survive, and environmental awareness. I also train with improvised weapons as well as less-than-lethal weapons daily as a part of my training (i.e. Kubotan, Mini-maglite, Comtech Stinger, etc.) For the most part the techniques are based on gross-motor skills as opposed to the fine-motor skills found in many styles of Kali/Arnis.

The funny thing I've noticed is is that the Kali in the US is trained differently than in Manila. In Manila, it's more streamlined and there aren't too many flashy-shmancy type drills. The emphasis is more on technique and sparring. Here in the good ol' U.S. of A, there is a higher emphasis on drills (sumbrada, hubad, sinawali) as opposed to sparring. Here in the US, Kali is seen more of a supplement to empty hand skills. Little do many people know that Kali is highly efficient in and of itself.

[krys]

I practice traditional fmas and there are forms in those arts.....
I have no problems with them and they are part of my daily practice.
Most of the time when I'm out of the Philippines and don't train-fight with my masters I only practice Arnis through forms, footwork, knife throwing and cutting with my kriss swords and daggers...


The problem in my oppinion lies in drilling.... drills can be used to take the fear of getting hurt from the student but I don't see any other advantages in them...For many students fmas means only practicing drills.... But drills are very far from combat and can give you bad habits....

Getting attacked randomly and sparring is far more fruitfull than just drilling.... most fma students also never train with real blades which is in my opinion a big mistake....
Training with real blades makes you far sharper and besides the mechanics of the blade and stick are quite different. If you are used only to sticks you may have some surprises the day you will need to use the real bolo.... same is true if you never stabed with a knife during training...

[sikal]

I cannot halp but notice the division of practitioners here in the US. A good number are pretty serious with their KALI..but a lot of clubs merely show forms and for show.
So here goes my question..Who among you practices KALi for show or for combat?
Thanks.

I train with a combative mindset. One of my favorite sayings is, "I work hard at being lazy." What I mean by that is that I don't want to stand around and fight with someone - that's a lot of work. I want to go home and relax. So if I get in a fight, my intention is to finish it as quickly as possible and go home.

Mike

[tekshow]

good point. i think a lot of clubs have been going "oh we have an escrima program" when the reality is their instructors have maybe been to a few seminars. it was hard for me in my area to find someone who knows more than the basics or who has had more than a couple sessions with Guro Inosanto


i train for combat, but then we get the forms much later. Some of the traditional dances and what not. Only we receive them after we have learned the martial applications so we can put meaning to the form.


we do full contact stick sparring as well. we wear arm shields and hand gaurds and metal helmets for the ratan sticks. www.lei.com makes a great practice stick though that is padded. Its the best practice stick i've found because it still feels like an escrima stick when you get hit and leaves a healthy bruise. it lets you know you're getting hit, but doesn't break anything... you can just where normal headgear and play around. it's a lot of fun and helps greatly with some of the tougher applications.


i had a riot trying to do some take downs while deflecting a stick at the same time... its wild... and really shows you how fast and deadly the FMA's really are.



just my .02$ peace.
joe

[sikal]

good point. i think a lot of clubs have been going "oh we have an escrima program" when the reality is their instructors have maybe been to a few seminars. it was hard for me in my area to find someone who knows more than the basics or who has had more than a couple sessions with Guro Inosanto

Absolutely. The core of the FMA that I do is Lacoste/Inosanto blend but has some heavy influence from other systems - especially Doce Pares/Eskrido from GM Cacoy Canete. But one of the funniest things I've had happen was this:

A few years ago I was at an event and talking to this guy. He asks about my FMA background and I tell him the core of it is Lacoste/Inosanto blend. He says, "Yeah, I did the Inosanto blend for a while but it didn't have enough depth for me." I was rather startled. I said, "Well, I've never found it lacking depth - but, hey, each to their own." He's happy with the system he's training in now, more power to him.

A few hours later, we were discussing some knife stuff and I did something and he said, "Hey that's good! That's from Uncle Bill's Kuntao Silat, right?" I said, "No. Uncle has something similar but it's more like this." and I demonstrated. Then I said, "What I did was pure Inosanto blend." He said, "Wow. I've never seen an Inosanto guy with that much depth." I said, "Well, you know, a lot of people in the Inosanto family aren't 'Kali' guys. They're JKD guys who do a little Kali at seminars. There's a huge difference between someone who does some Kali at seminars and someone who trains seriously in Kali."

Mike

[yentao]

I cannot halp but notice the division of practitioners here in the US. A good number are pretty serious with their KALI..but a lot of clubs merely show forms and for show.
So here goes my question..Who among you practices KALi for show or for combat?
Thanks.

all martial arts is good for show i love martial arts.

Their forms look good if they use a mace like the (morning star) instead of knife, you got to see it. Every hit is painful.

[straitup]

hi

well lets just say that were I live there are very few culbs and people who practice kali/Arnis for combat. Well most people say that they practice for combat or should I say self protection. The trouth is they don't. I know I know some of you will say that I'm bold to say that right. Well your right I probably am. I started my trainning in kali/arnis when I was 14 years old. Now that I'm an adalt I only train for combat as well as life, not just in kali/arnis but in all my trainning. Most of the people that train were I live (and this is only from what I have seen) train in the frame of mind that if it looks good and sounds good then thats good for them. I agree that there are lots of people out there that say they train for combat that really don't train right. As well there's lots of instructors out there that don't really know what combat really means any more.(I don't mean to offend anyone out there) Where I live there are lots and lots of these places as well as instructors. thanks for all your time

[yentao]

Just curious...

Can someone define how a kali person trains for combat in today's world?

I'm not by any stretch saying it can't be done - I do it myself. I'm just curious as to what people mean when they say things like: when I practice double stick against double stick, I'm training for a real fight.

To clarify, I wonder are we talking about the attributes and mental toughness one gains from, say, Dog Brother type sparring, and the other multitude of benefits that we get from more "drill" oriented training? Or are there some peopl out there who carry a pair of sticks with them everywhere they go in case a violent siniwali riot beaks out in the streets?

Just curious.

Most of the time people bring pipes or ice picks than sticks.

[yentao]

where? I guess I just live in a great are, because here, people either getinto it empty handed, or they start shooting. Occasionally, there's a stabbing, but not so many knife fights...

Only few people in Manila that know knife fighting that goes into random fight with anyone. Down Tondo, there is a lot of fights but no one knew much about arnis or kali and if there are it were not often they fight. They got discipline. Most fights are among goons and misguided children (mostly die). In the province though is different. It is a very different place. Justice is not well there. There is bloodshed and if an arnisador came from there then you will be sure he can teach the right stuff. Where you live? Looking for some action?

[yentao]

Just curious...

Can someone define how a kali person trains for combat in today's world?

I'm not by any stretch saying it can't be done - I do it myself. I'm just curious as to what people mean when they say things like: when I practice double stick against double stick, I'm training for a real fight.

To clarify, I wonder are we talking about the attributes and mental toughness one gains from, say, Dog Brother type sparring, and the other multitude of benefits that we get from more "drill" oriented training? Or are there some peopl out there who carry a pair of sticks with them everywhere they go in case a violent siniwali riot beaks out in the streets?

Just curious.

I carry billiard sticks that can be useful. All i can say is, if you are in area where people kill each other for fun, you will be a good fighter, considering a bullet as your breakfast and death in your doorstep.

[yentao]

No, not really looking for action. I've had plenty. I just don't hear about a lot of that kind of thing in the states anymore. The only ones who seem to fight one on one anymore are kids. Most often with adults, it's more like an ambush in a club, or a group of guys knocking the piss out of someone they don't like. Rarer, but not so rare as to not be a concern are the stabbings and shootings, but I rarely if ever heard of one of those where the victim was armed.

Where you live LA? Atleast some has able to get justice in there, here people find it hard. People kill each other here for money or other valueable things.

[krys]

In Tondo it's often baseball bats, arnis sticks, arrows, wooden shields, artisanal guns shooting broken glass and neals.... people get hurt but they don't kill each other ususally.
Lot of running and shouting.....
Killings are usually done during ambushes.... one guy walks towards another, pulls a knive stabs him repeatedly, pushes him against the wall, lift him up and guts him (this happened last January in Tondo)....

[yentao]

In Tondo it's often baseball bats, arnis sticks, arrows, wooden shields, artisanal guns shooting broken glass and neals.... people get hurt but they don't kill each other ususally.
Lot of running and shouting.....
Killings are usually done during ambushes.... one guy walks towards another, pulls a knive stabs him repeatedly, pushes him against the wall, lift him up and guts him (this happened last January in Tondo)....

There is a guy name Boy Tisoy around the divisoria area but i'm not sure if he is the one that had been killed by torturing by policemen. Boy tisoy is a notorious thief in the area. Usually famous for killing his neighbors he find irritating. This guy also victimize foreigners. Usually people getting killed around the area are not so much reported because the body was hidden on garbage and dumps. I know in tondo sumpak was more famous than guns.

[krys]

There is a guy name Boy Tisoy around the divisoria area but i'm not sure if he is the one that had been killed by torturing by policemen.

There was also this story of a cab driver who found 3 heads in a street of QC in the morning, I believe 2 years ago... These were snatchers who worked for the cops... when the cops were ordered to work in another district they decided to kill the 3 so that nobody would know about their business.

Killings also sometimes happen in shanties to increase one's reputation... one guy (usually new in the area) is invited to have drinks, when he is drunk and relieves himself he gets stabed in the kidneys and afterwards a wise guy claims to have killed him in a fight. I usually avoid drinking with strangers in places I'm not familiar with, especially in the province.