Weapons grappling

[FenrisMaelstrom]

What is the essential nature of grappling when weapons are present?

Most (FMA types) would likely argue that you simply don't go there- on the ground is a dumb place to be when a weapon is involved - then add in the usual multiple attackers factor to drive the point home (pun intended). Just don't do it!

However, one of the primary arguments for the ground game is that most fights end up there. You simply have to have your ground game for the inevitable.

So which one wins? You can somehow avoid the ground game when you intuit that weapons will be used? Or is it just as likely that you will end up having to deal with the broken bottle, or stick, or boot knife, or pen or whatever on the ground.

I'll take the argument that you have to be able to deal with the presence of weapons on the ground. With that assumption, the interesting question becomes:

How does that change the now-classic BJJ ground fight?

Some points I would argue:

• Get up as soon as possible
• Weight your focus on the weapon but do not forget the rest of the ground game
• Recognize that optimal positions like mount actually expose you to a weapon (e.g. blade to inner thigh)
• The top is still the better place to be (fast exits, body weight, use of ground as third hand)
• But being on top can expose you to "his friends" - but what's new about that?
• Make quick transitions - don't try to wear out your opponent - if one thing doesn't work, move on - fast!

If you have any mix of BJJ and FMA background, I'll get you have tried weapons in the ground fight. The percentages for ground fighters is much lower though - they are so focused on perfecting the one-on-one ring fight.

Anyone have any experience to contribute?

[thekuntawman]

i dont have very much of this kind of technique in my style, but i think its a good idea to develop some kind of fighting especially with the wepon. the last thing you want if you hit the ground (even if you already know how to roll), lost the weapon, and then his friend or even your opponent gets it.

i did not like the idea years before, but in sparring we have a stand up grappling with the stick, and when we go down, we get back up or just throw away the stick and continue fighting. but i believe its a good idea to figure out some strategy.

[danjuandesiga]

Haven't you rocket-scientists ever thought of just using your damn knife?
I would and I did.

[Tant01]

Cut the man down?

Haven't you rocket-scientists ever thought of just using your damn knife?
I would and I did.

What? And get it all bloody?

LOL

[ltindiandaeng]

When I worked as a correction officer it was not uncommon to become involved in a grappling situation while using a weapon, in this case a baton. Therefore I found it neccessary to learn how to grapple while using a weapon. In this cae there was also no knife available as of course we could not carry them in the prison. I cannot recall using the weapon while fighting on the ground myself, but undoubtedly it is possible to end up in this position. The best advice is to prepare for any eventuality.

[Tant01]

Whenever this comes up I think of this one psycho chick that stabbed herself when she was tackled by police. When she went to the ground trying to cut the officer's hands/arms she was impaled through her abdomen by her own knife...

Ad that to your list of things to never do...

[kingoftheforest]

However, one of the primary arguments for the ground game is that most fights end up there. You simply have to have your ground game for the inevitable.

I'd like to know where this came from. I had never heard this prior to UFC style fighting?

I have plenty of experience in street fighting, as well as bouncing at bars.

Very seldom have I ever had a fight go to the ground.
I don't disagree that having a good ground game is a good idea.

I agree you should train for all circumstances. But I'd really like to see some non-cage fight data that backs up all these people saying fights go to the ground more often than not.

Go look up non-UFC/cage match fights on UTUBE, just regular old fist-a-cuffs, I don't see a majority of these going to the ground, or lasting more than a few minutes either.

And I don't mean the billy and Johnny school yard fights, which also don't go to the ground that often, I mean the real nasty on the street corner fights.

[Tant01]

I'd like to know where this came from. I had never heard this prior to UFC style fighting?

I have plenty of experience in street fighting, as well as bouncing at bars.

Very seldom have I ever had a fight go to the ground.
I don't disagree that having a good ground game is a good idea.

I agree you should train for all circumstances. But I'd really like to see some non-cage fight data that backs up all these people saying fights go to the ground more often than not.

Go look up non-UFC/cage match fights on UTUBE, just regular old fist-a-cuffs, I don't see a majority of these going to the ground, or lasting more than a few minutes either.

And I don't mean the billy and Johnny school yard fights, which also don't go to the ground that often, I mean the real nasty on the street corner fights.

Well, if I may?

Being that I sorta started with Judo after years of rough and tumble the whole idea of restraint and control (or BOXING) was to put the other guy on the deck. Knock him out or throw him down, it seems at least ONE guy always ends up on the ground... But usually the "fight" part of the encounter was over...

That's the goal for me at least... Down you go! LOL

[danjuandesiga]

What? And get it all bloody?

LOL

Hell yeah! Better your knife get bloody as long as it's not none of yours.
Heh...

[vevrca]

hey people!
you got me interested in this fighting on the ground thing...

''just regular old fist-a-cuffs, I don't see a majority of these going to the ground, or lasting more than a few minutes either.'' ???
try doing this regular old fist-a-cuffs with a 60kg chick and i believe you'll see her smashed into the ground
is there even a way out of that situation for her? lets say she's quite agressive and wanting to stay alive

[jubaji]

I have plenty of experience in street fighting, as well as bouncing at bars.

Very seldom have I ever had a fight go to the ground.

................................

[thekuntawman]

i agree with king of the forest, not that many fights go to the ground. i worked in a couple of bars and night club too, and those fights almost never went to the ground. for a mugger or robber situation, which i think most people study self defense for, aint no mugger going to put you in a guard thats crazy.

but at the same time, i still think its a good skill to have.

also, i always say if 99% of the fight goes to the ground, yeah but 100% of them start standing up.