Karate ain't so bad

[sherwinc]

You're extremely WRONG......

Kata is the heart & soul of Karate. And I believe this is the same for ANY traditional martial art. It is no different from the forms one learns from Kung Fu. As has been said time & time again in this thread, kata teaches the practitioner proper form. With proper form comes power & strength. The moves are telegraphic because it is done so to emphasize the proper movement. Once execution of a kata is perfected, actual fighting techniques speed up & power is generated more.

Kata in KungFu is not like those of Karate and Tae Kwon Do, why?????

cause Karate and Tae Kwon Do is A FIST IS JUST A FIST AND NOTHING MORE

but......

in KungFu, A FIST IS NOT JUST A FIST, THE WHOLE BODY IS A FIST.

Examples Of The Benefits of Practicing Kata In:
KungFu Category:
1. AngKa KungFu (Iron Skin/Golden Bell Cover Benefit)
2. Snake Style KungFu (101% unlimited techniques inside their Katas)
3. Southern Eagle Claw KungFu (70% clawing training Kata)
4. Tai Chi Chuan KungFu (Raising Chi Benefits in Kata as well us listening, understanding, yeilding and nutralizing)
5. many more......

Karate and Tae Kwon Do Category:
1. Karate ( still a fist is just a fist benefit in their Kata and nothing more)
2. Tae Kwon Do ( still a full of jumping jack in fighting while same in Karate kata - a fist is just a fist and nothing more)

[Beginner]

Kata in KungFu is not like those of Karate and Tae Kwon Do, why?????

cause Karate and Tae Kwon Do is A FIST IS JUST A FIST AND NOTHING MORE

but......

in KungFu, A FIST IS NOT JUST A FIST, THE WHOLE BODY IS A FIST.

Forgive me, but the statement above has nothing to do with the concept of Kata. You simply differentiated the guiding principles of the three disciplines. And just for information, Karate's principle is "One blow, one kill," w/c means that every execution must be made perfectly so that the attack &/or defense is effective. Different systems follow different guiding principles & are dependent on the culture & existing needs at the time they were developed.

Examples Of The Benefits of Practicing Kata In:
KungFu Category:
1. AngKa KungFu (Iron Skin/Golden Bell Cover Benefit)
2. Snake Style KungFu (101% unlimited techniques inside their Katas)
3. Southern Eagle Claw KungFu (70% clawing training Kata)
4. Tai Chi Chuan KungFu (Raising Chi Benefits in Kata as well us listening, understanding, yeilding and nutralizing)
5. many more......

Karate and Tae Kwon Do Category:
1. Karate ( still a fist is just a fist benefit in their Kata and nothing more)
2. Tae Kwon Do ( still a full of jumping jack in fighting while same in Karate kata - a fist is just a fist and nothing more)

I do not understand the statement you made for that of Tae Kwon Do. However, on the list of Kung Fu styles you have mentioned, I can just as well enumerate different Kata's emphasizing different strikes, blocks, locks & throws. Most non-Karateka's do not know that Karate has numerous strikes & blocks aside from those more famous (i.e. straight punch, front kick, upward block, inward block, downward block &/or outward block). Names of strikes such as Chicken beak or Hand thrust can easily be mistaken for a Chinese Martial Art strike. And these "non-famous" strikes for Karate are found & strengthened in Kata. As was said before, it would be hard for someone to truly criticize one art w/o truly understanding that w/c is being criticized.

Much respects

[sherwinc]

Forgive me, but the statement above has nothing to do with the concept of Kata. You simply differentiated the guiding principles of the three disciplines. And just for information, Karate's principle is "One blow, one kill," w/c means that every execution must be made perfectly so that the attack &/or defense is effective. Different systems follow different guiding principles & are dependent on the culture & existing needs at the time they were developed.

Karate's principle of "One blow, one kill"????????

then why is it in Karate's Full Contact Tournament, when a black belt executes a hard punch to his Karate opponent, he can't make it die by just one puch????
then why is it that even when they reach 3 rounds with no gloves, still, both of them still standing and no one died??????

while....

in KungFu, the fight lasts around 60seconds or before 120seconds.

Note:
another shit moves in Karate and Tae Kwon Do is their Lung Punch or their Reverse Punch.

Why????

cause they do execute a straight linear punch from shoulder to fist (the elbow is straight) don't you know that - that type of straight punch from shoulder to your fist will bring you in a disadvantages situation??????

why????

Practitioners of WingChun KungFu knows the reason why
Practitioners of TaiChiChuan also knows the reason why
(All KungFu Category knows the reason why)
Muay Thai don't know the reason why
Wrestling don't know the reason why
(All non-KungFu don't know the reason why)

and that is the reason why WingChun doesn't punch that straight
and that is also the reason why TaiChi doesn't punch that straight

[sherwinc]

Andrew I don't study MT, but I think the dance is just for ceremony. I don't think it any fighting meaning, just a prayer before the fight. But of course I could be wrong.

So, before the fights of the two Muay Thai they pray for their victory but one of them - defeat.

are you saying that before the fight of Iron Mike Tyson and Hollyfield, one of them pray for "Allah" and one of them pray for "Jesus"

then the fight begins, and only one of them is the winner.

wow, who's god is superior?

Note:
the two of them pray to their god for their victory.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

Karate Ain't So Bad

Bri : you just don't understand where snaptechniques get their power from



Sherwinc: you are full of it, you don't know sjeit about karate, that's for shure
A fist is a fist, sorry but even in a simple form like the pinan a block can be a strike and vice versa
Nor should a form be peformed step by step, it should be combo by combo
oh and the same kata is explaned differently by different schools/styles
When doing a form solo, a fist is a fist but not when training applications and explanations.
calling the same movement the same everytime makes learning it faster as does step by step, as soon as it is learned, you are ready for the apps and combo's
Karate from Funakoshi and derived from Funakoshi Karate, didn't have tha applications therefore they started experimenting with kumite, to them Kata was no longer a fighting form and hence didn't focus on them, styles like Goju and Shito as well as those derrived from it did train the apps alongside of it
BTW all the Goju forms are chinese forms

Itosu lineage Karate Kata aren't fighting forms but not for the reasons Bri gives nor for the reasons Sherwinc gives
The reason is Itosu took the applications out and changed the way of training (driltype instruction) but this also made it possible to be spread around the world via tha mainland Japan

Lets face it, it is Japan that has triggered the quest for Martail Arts in the first place

[Thai Bri]

I most certainly do understand "snap" impact. I understand how impactive it is against thin air, with a lightening pull back to return the attacking limb, and a resounding "crack!!!" of a well starched Gi........

I also understand that it can have a use in the real world. Like attacking target that don't need alot of impact to be effective.

I understand that it is, on the whole, pretty weak. But, of course, I only spend my training time striking at actual objects. I'm the guy that people hold the pads for, and then say "Wow!" when I knock them half way to next week. So what do I know?

I have nowhere near the qualification of most Karate Back Belts out there - MANY OF WHOM QUALIFY WITHOUT EVER ACTUALLY HITING ANYONE OR ANYTHING!

[IPON]

I'm the guy that people hold the pads for, and then say "Wow!" when I knock them half way to next week.

Ok Bri now I am confused, are you saying that in training karateka never train with heavy bags focus pads etc. I have never studied japanese karate, but I can't believe that is true. When someone hits a bag or pad it is essentially a non-moving target so yes, using your arguments, it is easy to show power, but that does not mean it is functional.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

You see I was right you don't understand snaptechniques, you have never been instructed right


no power in then yeah right how much more do you need, I've seen jaws and pallettes break from a snapkick (and a lot of boards)

a month ago there was open kyokushin tournament, 3 sec knockout to the head with a snapkick
sounds like powerfull to me and guess what all these guys do Kata and punch thin air

but maybe breaking someones jaw or knocking him out isn't powerfull enough to your liking?

[Beginner]

Karate's principle of "One blow, one kill"????????

then why is it in Karate's Full Contact Tournament, when a black belt executes a hard punch to his Karate opponent, he can't make it die by just one puch????
then why is it that even when they reach 3 rounds with no gloves, still, both of them still standing and no one died??????

while....

in KungFu, the fight lasts around 60seconds or before 120seconds.

Note:
another shit moves in Karate and Tae Kwon Do is their Lung Punch or their Reverse Punch.

Why????

cause they do execute a straight linear punch from shoulder to fist (the elbow is straight) don't you know that - that type of straight punch from shoulder to your fist will bring you in a disadvantages situation??????

why????

Practitioners of WingChun KungFu knows the reason why
Practitioners of TaiChiChuan also knows the reason why
(All KungFu Category knows the reason why)
Muay Thai don't know the reason why
Wrestling don't know the reason why
(All non-KungFu don't know the reason why)

and that is the reason why WingChun doesn't punch that straight
and that is also the reason why TaiChi doesn't punch that straight

"One blow, one kill" is a guiding principle. A concept, if you will. Every movement executed perfectly. In other words you do not deliver a punch or a kick if you're not sure it will go through. It doesn't mean the adversary has to die the moment you hit him. Please do not degrade yourself by misunderstanding even a basic explanation. And I don't see the reason for all your aggravations. I have yet to read a decent explanation, much less a rhetoric, of your ideas. Does your Sifu even know how you are representing him through your entries in this forum? Pilipino rin ako at di magandang pinakikita mong ganyan ang kalidad ng pananalita at panunulat mo sa publiko. Di lahat ng nandito ay walang alam sa Karate o Kung Fu o kung anumang martial art na binabatikos mo ng walang pakundanggan.

Sorry to all 'bout the Filipino language. It was just a reminder.

[Beginner]

I'm sorry, man.

I just told him that I'm also Filipino & it's not good to make entries in a serious public forum that don't make sense - it's just a waste of time. And that not everyone in this forum doesn't know a thing about Karate, Kung Fu or any other martial art of w/c he so bluntly criticizes.

Again, my apologies. And, yes it's Filipino. And your mom's right, learn a second language. It doesn't matter what kind - it still adds to your knowledge.

Much respects

[Beginner]

Yeah Spanish is good. Languages that are most widely used in the world would be English, Chinese & Spanish. So I guess take your pick. Good luck.

Lates

[IPON]

[QUOTE=BeginnerPilipino rin ako at di magandang pinakikita mong ganyan ang kalidad ng pananalita at panunulat mo sa publiko. Di lahat ng nandito ay walang alam sa Karate o Kung Fu o kung anumang martial art na binabatikos mo ng walang pakundanggan[/QUOTE]


I don't know what you said, but I definately agree

[IPON]

Languages that are most widely used in the world would be English, Chinese & Spanish

don't for get French and german, swiss german high german etc sigh

[brokenelbow]

This Kata trains the student to adapt to close quarters fighting such as a corridor or - as it was meant to be used back in ancient times - rice paddies in Okinawa. It strengthens your legs for this type of encounter where side stepping out of the paddy is not possible as you would end up 2ft. in mud on the rice plants. In contrast, the Horse stance strengthens your legs, period. The Karate Side Kick is executed from the Horse stance.

Beginner where the hell does that rice paddy nonsense come from? I can't see Choki Motubu fighting on a rice paddy. Yes some kata like naihanchi are for in-fighting and yes some kata are done on a straight line, but the fighting with ones back to a wall, on a bridge or in a hallway is just silly.

[Toudiyama[NL]]

nahanchi kata actualyis meant to strengthen your your handtechniques without being able to use large hipmovement

First off, most early okinawan karateka were of noble family or at least middleclass so they wouldn't be in the ricepaddies anyway

Second the crossstep sidestep in bunkai would actualy place you to the side of the opponent