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Hi: I'm new to the forum (never thought to look for one before!) Just thought I'd pose a question. I've been instructing for about 3 or 4 years and have always found that I really have to "prove myself" to male teen and adult students. There's not an automatic respect for the belt. Eventually things are fine - I'm assertive but pleasant. What are others' experiences - as a student or female instructor? I apologize if this isn't a new topic - I don't know how far back to read! Thanks.
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Hi M'ragon,
I don't have a problem at all with adult students. Teenaged boys, yes, I have to 'earn' their respect more so than with other students. But I've never had too much of an issue with it as they're all pretty well behaved anyway.
Cakegirl -
Thanks for responding, Cakegirl. Yes, the teenage and young adult men tend to be more challenging. They're not openly disrespectful, it's more of a sullenness. What kinds of things do you do to engage them?Comment
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Question - what is the demographics of where you teach? I have taught in teh suburbs and in teh city and it's a bit different. In the suburbs, I receive unquestioning respect, but in teh city they want to see that what you are doing will work in combat. I have learned that it's normal and actually part of the culture for them to test my stuff so to speak. And I'm a guy.
-HikageComment
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Hi Hikage: This is a middle income area, more suburb than city. I think that some of the young guys think I look more like a mom than a Sensei - some will only go to the classes taught by my male colleagues, and have never been to mine. It's definitely a sexism issue. I don't lack confidence or skill. It just bugs me that the stereotyping is there. The older guys and the women work hard and are a pleasure to train with.Comment
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M'ragon
I seen an article written by a female instructor that was pretty interesting. It was in BB mag I believe. I'll try to dig it up over the week end and if I find it I'll scan it in for you.
KenComment
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Thanks - that would be appreciated. I do have one article on the topic from BB but it was written in '86.Originally posted by kengarComment
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Well they complained about me sparring to hard so I had to ease up. I don't like sparring them at all unless they are good. There are two that are good and one I like to spar because she is very aggressive and fun to block. I have no mercy for the men so I like sparring them much more. I don't like sparring ppl under 16 either. They have poor skills and a mental disadvantage not to mention physical. Women have a strength disadvantage and flexiblity advantage. Some are afraid to get hit a little hard and this makes me limit specific moves. I have never injured a women in sparring and they complained. I have no doubt in my mind they could handle the way I spar. I think it is just a mental thing. I laughed when my instructor mentoned that I spar women to hard, Because I thought he was joking. I asked the 3 girls that I mentoned if I spar against them to hard and they said no. They are no different than other women. That is why a woman would not get the full experience sparring me unless she proved she can handle me or even dominate the sparring match. I know women can do it they are just intimidated. I'm trying to get my mother to spar (she took kenpo and now takes tkd with me) but she is afraid. We spar hard at are school and this scares them. I think if they are that afraid they should get more equipment. Oh, i'm sorry there is another girl that was great to spar agaisnt, but I have not sparred with her in a long time
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"Hi Hikage: This is a middle income area, more suburb than city. I think that some of the young guys think I look more like a mom than a Sensei - some will only go to the classes taught by my male colleagues, and have never been to mine. It's definitely a sexism issue. I don't lack confidence or skill. It just bugs me that the stereotyping is there. The older guys and the women work hard and are a pleasure to train with."
That sux i would go to any class that is instructed at my school they are all great. I only have one female instructor and she is intense on exercises and thats why I like her class. My favorite class is the most feared class in the dojang because of the hard sparring. That is all i really care about is sparring at a good lvl. I don't want to train soft heh. That has to do with the class layout not sexism
. I have alot of respect for ppl in that class. These are ppl devoted. The teacher is a male kickboxer. I wouldn't mind being taught by a female kickboxer either . If your a good instructor the students at your dojo are missing out. There loss.
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Well, Tiger Claw. Are you saying that the ability to spar hard is what determines your respect for female martial artists? Would an instructor have to be consistently able to beat you (hit you hard, hurt you) for you to really respect her (or him!)?
My belief is that if you join a particular school or style, you assume and respect that certain standards have been met or exceeded by the black or high ranking belts. (Btw, I love to spar - it's my favourite thing.)
Yes, some women are uncomfortable or fearful at first, but with encouragement they often come to enjoy it. Others are "naturals" right from the beginning. I know one young lady who was disqualified several times at tournaments (usually in the final), for drawing blood - and she was fighting in the guys' division!
My point is that perhaps we shouldn't generalize - not about female students or female instructors. I would rather people stop coming to my classes because they didn't like them then not come at all because I'm a girl!
And it's that whole "she sucks because she's a female until she shows me otherwise" mentality that bugs me the most.
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No, I did not say I didn't respect them. I said they cramp my fighting style when sparring. I respect them that is why I am sparring lightly with them otherwise I would just do my usual and maybe some more. Nowhere did I say I didn't respect them.
"Would an instructor have to be consistently able to beat you (hit you hard, hurt you) for you to really respect her (or him!)? "
Not beat me but put up a good fight. No matter what sex. If you spar lightly your gonna make some bad habbits. I'm not into the whole tap crap. When I'm punched in the head or kicked I better feel it. The female instructor can spar at a great lvl and she has alot of respect from me. I respect everyone but there are lvls of respect you must understand. I have less respect for my karate instructor that is female. She has no concept of fighting. This is not a sparring issue but teaching issue. I am dropping the classes soon. I also don't like this type of karate. They point spar for sparring.....Comment
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Tiger claw: Well, I think you are confusing respect for "the person" (where you would spar lightly with someone you perceive to be weaker) with respect for "the martial artist", where you should know that because of their level and experience they have acquired skills and knowledge which will benefit you. I'm talking about your instructor or Sensei, not your fellow students, and this is the basis of my question / complaint: that young males don't seem to have the same level of respect for their female instructors as they do for males.Originally posted by Tiger Claw
You may very well be respectful, I did not mean to suggest otherwise. But can you honestly say you don't make assumptions about women in karate or other martial arts?Comment
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I do not. I do not assume that you have nothing to offer me if I was your student infact the chances are you have alot. I would decide after a few classes weither I like what the instructor is teaching or not. I have respect for my karate instructor but not the system as a form of self defense that it says it is. She may take ma for another reason than me, and I respect that. I really hate the isshinryu fist. The rest of the stuff I have been taught is nothing new to me. Being cross-trained may be a factor in me not liking the sytem.
"Well, I think you are confusing respect for "the person" (where you would spar lightly with someone you perceive to be weaker) with respect for "the martial artist", where you should know that because of their level and experience they have acquired skills and knowledge which will benefit you."
As a martial artist they should train more and harder nothing more to it. I have respect for martial artist trainning hard. They cannot hit me and have open guards half the time (the kids are worse they should be in another class they are in only some of the classes not all). At my tkd school we preach keeping good gaurds. Most of the men have great gaurds and less women do. The men are trainning harder and going more. The ratio is not so good for women as I mentioned. They can do it but are not. This has been true in every stand up ma (kenpo had a little jj but I am putting it in that category)I have taken. I only say two women in class of 40 for jj class. That is horrible.
I'm sorry if this sounds bad, but it bugs me. I plan on owning a school that is cross-trained and fixing problems I see. The women should be pushed more. I have faith that they can fight. This isn't the only thing that bugs me in ma . I got alot to fix.
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Okay, thanks for your opinions. I wish more women trained as well. It's so rewarding when all the strength and aggression that has been repressed and socialized out of them (because it is not feminine) is rediscovered.
If you are working with women, Tiger claw, encourage them, okay, don't just blame them for not working hard or often enough.
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I don't blame them I would rather help them. I think fat ppl (got a few of them not very good) got it worse from society. They are on my list to help out when I open up a school. Another factor of women may be they are afraid to hit /shrug. One girl I was sparring was fat, and I felt bad going very easy on her. She was way out of range for attacking when throwing kicks, and I didn't feel like exploiting her messed up guard. I think maybe going easy on them is bad too. I imagine that the rest of the guys do this . I don't spar ppl to hurt them, but the complaint a women gave to my instructor (he just mentioned he said nothing I made the choice to ease up). They also see me hitting pads and will tell me to go easy on them because I hit very hard. That is my guess or they talk in the ladies changing room. I am going to gradually challenge them (except for a few that are already great).
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all i know is that the female instructors at my school are badass and they really make the classes tough, and sparring wise, the females are like the scariest people in the freakin world, man are they viscious and tough when u get then in the sparring ring, like for example my buddy was sparring one of the upper level females in our class and she was just goin crazy, she was sluggin him, so he decided to like full out hook kick her in the face, it didnt work, she kept comin, looked like it had the effect of throwin a grape at a brick wall, and my freind kicks harders than most people i have ever seen, so yeah women are tough and freaky at times, but its all good, i think its cool
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