15th Dan Ninja!!!

[Tant01]

Anyone know the Grand Master in the USA claiming this rank?

Excuse my skepticism but what's the deal?

[stauburn]

I do know of a few of Shihan that have that rank but none of them claim to be a grandmaster ( I am refering to the bujinkan system ). Maybe in other " ninjutsu" system they boast that claim. Do you know who the person is?

[Hikage]

A couple years ago Hatsumi added 5 more dan to the ranking system to place a larger gap between himself and the other 10th dans. As best I understand it, he re-thought his position, and he felt that the 10th dans understood enough to have the rank of 10th dan, but because there was still much more for them to know, he extended the ranking system out to reflect the extra area for growth. In all honesty, I'm not sure what I think of it either. I'm something of a purist, and I'm not too keen on the change.

-Hikage

[treelizard]

I have had the honor of training with Shihan Prather, who is a 15th Dan Shihan, in Tucson, and he is amazing. He also developed a CQC course for the USMC and Army SpecOps. I think his skills speak for themselves. And he doesn't call himself a grandmaster.

[Tant01]

Soke Hatsumi?

A couple years ago Hatsumi added 5 more dan to the ranking system to place a larger gap between himself and the other 10th dans. As best I understand it, he re-thought his position, and he felt that the 10th dans understood enough to have the rank of 10th dan, but because there was still much more for them to know, he extended the ranking system out to reflect the extra area for growth. In all honesty, I'm not sure what I think of it either. I'm something of a purist, and I'm not too keen on the change.

-Hikage

I see. So the rank modification didn't take long to max out again if there are now at least TWO 15th dan masters (i use the term losely) in the US. If it was Matsumi Sensei intent to distuingish himself he seems to have failed. Why have more than one person at the very top of the rank structure? Even if you change it again to include another five or ten grades above what exists now it would be the next cool Ninja thing to be 25th degree blackbelt...

[Tant01]

I do know of a few of Shihan that have that rank but none of them claim to be a grandmaster ( I am refering to the bujinkan system ). Maybe in other " ninjutsu" system they boast that claim. Do you know who the person is?

Not personally....

You looking for a name?

[Hikage]

I see. So the rank modification didn't take long to max out again if there are now at least TWO 15th dan masters (i use the term losely) in the US. If it was Matsumi Sensei intent to distuingish himself he seems to have failed. Why have more than one person at the very top of the rank structure? Even if you change it again to include another five or ten grades above what exists now it would be the next cool Ninja thing to be 25th degree blackbelt...

An art can have more than one 10th dan. There are and were multiple people at the top of the ninjitsu ranks for a long time. The title of "Soke", however, is reserved for only one person, the father or grandmaster of the particular Ryu. That being said, it is possible to have 2 or three Soke's within the same art, standing in the same room.

That being said, I still don't agree with the 15 level system, and if this is true that there are at least 2 15th's in the States, that only serves to further my disdain. Anyone know where Hayes is ranked now?

-Hikage

[blitz]

I have had the honor of training with Shihan Prather, who is a 15th Dan Shihan, in Tucson, and he is amazing. He also developed a CQC course for the USMC and Army SpecOps. I think his skills speak for themselves. And he doesn't call himself a grandmaster.

Can you tell me about what he teaches? We don't have any schools here which teach any style of ninjiutsu and I just want to know more about? What kind of skills do they teach, and what's so different than other arts? I know my teachers assisstant took ninjiutsu but I didn't get the chance to ask him much about it I just knew the guy could fight because he used some of the techniques in sparring.

[Tant01]

Shihan Ed Martin (15 dan) NC. USA operates a branch school and trained with Hatsumi soke himself in Japan...

Lets make a list... It can't be THAT long unless each 15 degree blackbelt claims a slightly different STYLE?

[stauburn]

Tant01,

I am not looking for any names. There are too many people these days running around calling themselves "grandmasters".

As for the bujinkan ranking system it's been a source of controversy for people in and out of the art. I will not comment on the ranking system because I am not qualified to do so , I leave that up to Soke Hatsumi.

There are actually more that 2 Shinan in the U.S. and I have personally trained with 3 of them. If you are in the San Fran area you can visit Dale Seago( http://www.sfbuyu.com/) who is a very knowledgable and capable 15th dan , if you want to find out more about the art and it's rank structure.

[Tant01]

Thanks buddy...

Tant01,

I am not looking for any names. There are too many people these days running around calling themselves "grandmasters".

As for the bujinkan ranking system it's been a source of controversy for people in and out of the art. I will not comment on the ranking system because I am not qualified to do so , I leave that up to Soke Hatsumi.

There are actually more that 2 Shinan in the U.S. and I have personally trained with 3 of them. If you are in the San Fran area you can visit Dale Seago( http://www.sfbuyu.com/) who is a very knowledgable and capable 15th dan , if you want to find out more about the art and it's rank structure.

I might just do that, thanks for the link...


All the best,



~Ray.