bottom game

[treelizard]

Instead of fighting over knee throws I'll never use in a real fight, I've been pulling guard a lot when rolling (no gi) and realize my bottom game sucks. This is everything I know:

don't be flat
dinosaur arms
roll towards them not away
put a knee in to create space
try to get an underhook, don't give him an underhook or he'll get yr back
bucking/shrimping

My underhook doesn't always work and although I can usually get 'em to post by bucking I have a really hard time getting any kind of escape in unless it's just by putting a knee up and shrimping out.

(I'm kind of at the point where I think any good positioning I get has nothing to do with my skill level or solid positioning or even knowledge of positioning, but works just because it's unexpected and I'm sneaky... LOL Like I can sometimes sneak into high mount or sneak past guard with limited resistance from my training partner if they aren't paying attention or expecting it, just throw a leg over real fast...with people who I don't think it would work with if they noticed. I give them two weeks. But anyway, of course this doesn't work from bottom because that's something pretty hard to sneak out of without anyone noticing. lol

[Guest]

you turn down my proposal of marriage, then start a thread called "bottom game".

a man has feelings you know treelizard

[treelizard]

you turn down my proposal of marriage, then start a thread called "bottom game".

a man has feelings you know treelizard

LOL. Sorry. I did say my bottom game is awful, though, if that's any consolation....

[Guest]

...which leads me to believe your talent lies in your top game?? This just gets worse!

I'm out of here...

[treelizard]

Anybody interested in answering the original question on escapes from bottom?

[Bjjexpertise@be]

I suck at teaching but I'll try, TreeLiz.

Something you can try that could really help your guard game is to getting an overhook. If they're in your guard (assuming you're right handed), get a deep left overhook then scoot your hips out to the side so that you'll be laying on your right side. Your left leg should be high on his back while your right foot will be on his hip. Keep in mind you should be constantly squeezing your knees together at all times.

From this position you've done a lot of things:
1)break his posture (that's the hardest part of guard I think)
2)given yourself HUGE freedom of movement
3)trapped one of his arms.

From this position you can just start attacking him. Some of the attacks you can do include the triangle, omoplata/gogoplata, and armbar.

Triangle
The most obvious one, keep your over hook and have your free hand grip his left wrist, and force it either away or into his hip. From there, throw your right leg over and voila, triangle!

Omoplata/Gogoplata
This one should be rather obvious too. Get your left shin/foot as close to his head as possible, then with the aid of your right hand pull that over his shoulder and across his face.
At this point, if he decides to lift his head and expose his neck then shove your shin underneath his chin, square yourself back up with him and pull down on his head for the Gogo.
If he keeps his neck well protected, figure four your legs and go ahead and set up the omoplata.

Armbar
The armbar is pretty simple but gets tricky. With your deep over hook, loosen it a little bit and slide it down and relock it as close to his elbow as possible. From here, (make sure you keep that over hook tight tight tight!!!) inch your shin/foot close to his head and pull it over his should and across his face (like setting up the Gogoplata or Omoplata). From here just arch your back and try and finish that armbar.

-------
I know what I told you isn't some super secret way to having a good guard but sometimes trying new things help you understand more about the mechanics of the guard and understand what you weren't doing before that could be critical.

This "set-up" from guard I've taught to a little beginners and they seem to have epiphanies about their guard since it helps cover a lot of details they missed before (breaking posture, never lay on your back, etc.)
So just give this a try next practice and tell me if it helps you out at all .

Hope you understand what I wrote.

[DickHardman]

this 1 sweep improved my bottom game quite a bit. because you can attempt an armbar, and then use this once they start defending. in fact, i use the armbar attempt just to utilize this sweep. its so damn easy, and it works on people many times your size.

i nailed this sweep multiple times against an experienced wrestler last night who was much bigger and stronger than me.

[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z4_cHG7z-tU[/YOUTUBE]

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

LOL. Sorry. I did say my bottom game is awful, though, if that's any consolation....

you any good on top?

[treelizard]

you any good on top?

I've spent a bit of time working on guard passes and usually eventually one of them will work. I also have an okay side game; spent about two hours one-on-one with a kick ass coach working just on side and now everyone tells me it's pretty tight.

Thanks everyone for the things to work on!! I will pick one each time or something. I find when I try to get a triangle choke in, my knee ends up in my face and the other guy gets side control.

[DickHardman]

you any good on top?

please guys, enough with the sexual innuendo. its not appropriate.

[DickHardman]

I've spent a bit of time working on guard passes and usually eventually one of them will work. I also have an okay side game; spent about two hours one-on-one with a kick ass coach working just on side and now everyone tells me it's pretty tight.

Thanks everyone for the things to work on!! I will pick one each time or something. I find when I try to get a triangle choke in, my knee ends up in my face and the other guy gets side control.

the best guard pass for me is putting my knee up as the try to pull me into their guard. as long as you get 1 knee up you can pass or stand. you can slide it over their thigh and at least hold them down in halfguard.

from sidecontrol, every time you get head control and you pin their head with your shoulder, your hand will be hanging out around there neck. you can easily feed a collar across their throat to the hand that has head control, and then choke the life out of them using the leverage of your entire body against their neck.

this is what im talking about. the trick is feeding the collar across the throat to the other hand. if you reach around their neck and just grab their collar, it will not be tight enough and you will be fighting yourself;, feeding the collar across the throat to the other hand specifically tightens the collar around the neck.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Rj-hS9b81zk[/YOUTUBE]

the finish has many variations, one of the most powerful being the one were you throw your leg over his body and grab his leg to prevent his hips from escaping, while providing you with leverage to apply against his neck.
[YOUTUBE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-xDWYfks5k[/YOUTUBE]

[treelizard]

yeah, i usually slide the knee across and move over, or i'll weave my arm under one leg and over the other, or i'll push both legs back and forth and then over to one side, or i'll dig my elbows in there, or if their legs are high up my back i'll do some kind of leg lock.

from side i worked on the fundamental five on top when i was at straight blast, which is control the upper body, block out the hip, kill the inside arm, control above the far elbow, move with purpose. so i just get in tight and get one knee in the armpit and one knee under their hip and crossface...i can sometimes sneak in mount after i get side...

i don't roll gi yet

maybe in september, but i love my no-gi gym right now

[Tant01]

An option or two...

From the Sombo...


[YOUTUBE][/YOUTUBE]

[7r14ngL3Ch0k3]

I've spent a bit of time working on guard passes and usually eventually one of them will work. I also have an okay side game; spent about two hours one-on-one with a kick ass coach working just on side and now everyone tells me it's pretty tight.

Thanks everyone for the things to work on!! I will pick one each time or something. I find when I try to get a triangle choke in, my knee ends up in my face and the other guy gets side control.

yes, the side game is very important as well.

[Tom Yum]

Instead of fighting over knee throws I'll never use in a real fight, I've been pulling guard a lot when rolling (no gi) and realize my bottom game sucks. This is everything I know:

don't be flat
dinosaur arms
roll towards them not away
put a knee in to create space
try to get an underhook, don't give him an underhook or he'll get yr back
bucking/shrimping

My underhook doesn't always work and although I can usually get 'em to post by bucking I have a really hard time getting any kind of escape in unless it's just by putting a knee up and shrimping out.

(I'm kind of at the point where I think any good positioning I get has nothing to do with my skill level or solid positioning or even knowledge of positioning, but works just because it's unexpected and I'm sneaky... LOL Like I can sometimes sneak into high mount or sneak past guard with limited resistance from my training partner if they aren't paying attention or expecting it, just throw a leg over real fast...with people who I don't think it would work with if they noticed. I give them two weeks. But anyway, of course this doesn't work from bottom because that's something pretty hard to sneak out of without anyone noticing. lol

Tree, didn't read all the responses, but have you tried working guard sweeps to change position?