Brazilian Ju-Jitsu

[Bjjexpertise@be]

That's Judo. Also Judo. Also Judo.



more Judo uh, more Judo. still listing Judo...
and, wait for it...more Judo

Hahahahahahaha It doesn't appear much of BJJ is applicable to a prison guards needed skill set does it? Seems to me you should have advocated a traditional martial art, perhaps, I dunno.... JUDO?

Hahaha like I said BJJ teaches wrestling and Judo takedowns. If you look into the history of it, BJJ is derived from wrestling and Judo among many other things. You apparently have a grudge against contemporary martial arts so there's really no point in arguing here if you've already made up your mind.

[TTEscrima]

Hahaha like I said BJJ teaches wrestling and Judo takedowns. If you look into the history of it, BJJ is derived from wrestling and Judo among many other things. You apparently have a grudge against contemporary martial arts so there's really no point in arguing here if you've already made up your mind.

Exactly, BJJ has no throws of its own, it relies on cross training in other sports to make use of the skills included in the ground component of BJJ...and the ground component of BJJ? Well it's nothing more than Judo repackaged either.

BJJ has absolutely nothing new to offer that a good JUJUTSU or Judo player doesn't already have that applies to correction work.

Meanwhile, BJJ's dependence and focus on single unarmed opponent offers less viable options and training than Jujutsu does for the Corrections officer.

I've no grudge against any martial art, but I do have a problem with sports being promoted as combatives, especially when it's by people who have never been in the military or Law enforcement.

Any system that does not contain weapon work, weapon defense or recognize and train for the possibility of multiple opponents is a piss poor excuse for SD, and only a fool would try to show it in any other light than as a sport.

To recommend a system without those components to those who put their life on the line facing weapons and multiple opponents is supreme hubris.

[Bjjexpertise@be]

Exactly, BJJ has no throws of its own, it relies on cross training in other sports to make use of the skills included in the ground component of BJJ...and the ground component of BJJ? Well it's nothing more than Judo repackaged either.

BJJ has absolutely nothing new to offer that a good JUJUTSU or Judo player doesn't already have that applies to correction work.

Meanwhile, BJJ's dependence and focus on single unarmed opponent offers less viable options and training than Jujutsu does for the Corrections officer.

So if they teach a move in one art that also happens to be in another then the art is considered dependent? With that argument I can say that any martial art that throws a punch is dependent on boxing or Judo is dependent on another art because they share a lot of the same moves as wrestling.

BJJ repackaged? Can be looked at in that way. BJJ and Judo have different emphasis. I've done both arts and they both focus on different aspects, standing and ground work, and each respective art has refined their emphasis. A top tier Judoka will defeat any BJJ guy standing any day of the week while a high level BJJ guy will defeat any Judoka on the ground.

If you truly truly want to argue about what prepares you for corrections work then no martial art really does that. Experience in the situation alone will do that for you.

[TTEscrima]

So if they teach a move in one art that also happens to be in another then the art is considered dependent? With that argument I can say that any martial art that throws a punch is dependent on boxing or Judo is dependent on another art because they share a lot of the same moves as wrestling.

If one art is created from skill contained within another its a hybrid at best, when the new art leaves out parts of the original it's less complete than the original. When the same art has not one throw of its own yet is an art primarily recognized for ground fighting then the system is incomplete to say the least, add in no weapons or multiple opponents and the one thing it is not is a martial art.

It doesn't share moves, it steals them. The moves already have names and come from separate systems and without those systems you will be in the same boat the Gracies were...scooting around on their butts begging their opponent to lie down between their legs.

If you truly truly want to argue about what prepares you for corrections work then no martial art really does that. Experience in the situation alone will do that for you.

I'd say combatives, RBMA and edged weapon arts are far better suited to corrections work than BJJ, do you really need the experience of being locked in an area, outnumbered, unarmed and on a concrete floor to grasp that an art that specializes in fighting one on one and empty handed on the ground is a piss poor use of a Corrections officers training time?

[Bjjexpertise@be]

If one art is created from skill contained within another its a hybrid at best, when the new art leaves out parts of the original it's less complete than the original. When the same art has not one throw of its own yet is an art primarily recognized for ground fighting then the system is incomplete to say the least, add in no weapons or multiple opponents and the one thing it is not is a martial art.

It doesn't share moves, it steals them. The moves already have names and come from separate systems and without those systems you will be in the same boat the Gracies were...scooting around on their butts begging their opponent to lie down between their legs.

So if an art takes skills they feel is useful from another art to help form its own then its not complete? So what about Jeet Kune Do who's philosophy is to assimilate what works best for the individual and exclude what doens't work? What about Judo that derives its moves from jujutsu? What exactly is the definition of a Martial Art? Does it necessarily have to address multiple opponents and weapons? If you think about it, Judo doesn't have anything that addresses multiple opponent scenarios, neither does Jeet Kune Do.
As for Brazilian Jiu Jitsu, its original form does address weapons and other street defense situations, that was what it was originally created for. You are looking at the sport BJJ that you see in competitions and automatically assuming that that is exactly what someone's going to do in a self defense situation.

I'd say combatives, RBMA and edged weapon arts are far better suited to corrections work than BJJ, do you really need the experience of being locked in an area, outnumbered, unarmed and on a concrete floor to grasp that an art that specializes in fighting one on one and empty handed on the ground is a piss poor use of a Corrections officers training time?

I'm going to argue yes, you need to be in the actual situation to learn how to face the situation. You don't learn how to drive or fly airplanes through computer games.
Also, if you're in a locked in area, outnumbered, and unarmed, no art will save you from that. Unless you got a gun you're not making it out of that one.

[TTEscrima]

I'm going to argue yes, you need to be in the actual situation to learn how to face the situation. You don't learn how to drive or fly airplanes through computer games.

LOL, you sure are fond of shooting your mouth on subjects you have no exposure...Flight simulators (computer games) are a core instructional tool of every US Military service for training their pilots. It's simply amazing all the things you're more qualified to speak on than those who do it for a living.

Also, if you're in a locked in area, outnumbered, and unarmed, no art will save you from that. Unless you got a gun you're not making it out of that one.

LOL, Corrections officers do it all the time, they hit, move, and do every damn thing under the sun to stay on their feet until help gets there, they do not as you advocated use a BJJ takedown because those that have tried that strategy didn't survive it.


And as for what you claim I assume the BJJ person will use in SD? You're going to use the tools you have, those would be things you spent all your time training..I'm still waiting on which BJJ tools you train for SD.

We already heard you don't train for weapons or multiple opponents. What do you train that is unique to BJJ that makes you think it would be the proper tool for SD in the Prison system?

[Bjjexpertise@be]

LOL, you sure are fond of shooting your mouth on subjects you have no exposure...Flight simulators (computer games) are a core instructional tool of every US Military service for training their pilots. It's simply amazing all the things you're more qualified to speak on than those who do it for a living.




LOL, Corrections officers do it all the time, they hit, move, and do every damn thing under the sun to stay on their feet until help gets there, they do not as you advocated use a BJJ takedown because those that have tried that strategy didn't survive it.


And as for what you claim I assume the BJJ person will use in SD? You're going to use the tools you have, those would be things you spent all your time training..I'm still waiting on which BJJ tools you train for SD.

We already heard you don't train for weapons or multiple opponents. What do you train that is unique to BJJ that makes you think it would be the proper tool for SD in the Prison system?

Are you still claiming that I claim that is the end all be all situation? I told you before that in my first post I said I felt BJJ would best cover aspects of your game and then used that example to dispel the myth of the guard jump or butt scoot. In those situations you would probably be best to stick and move as you put it.

As for what I train that is unique to BJJ that would be useful in the SD Prison sytem question, things like how to safely get back to your feet from underneath your opponent and escapes from an inferior position would be most useful imo.

We're arguing in circles here and going back to the same points so I'm going to agree to disagree. You're more than welcome to make any further points but it is obvious that we clearly don't see on the same page. In order to avoid the internet shit fling that I always see on here and try to avoid I'm going to leave this at that.

[Tant01]

Lmao...

TTescrima, WHY do you presume to know so much about BJJ? It was invented only for self defense. The sports aspect is simply a by- product that over time is what the rest of the world sees and focuses on.

.....

Oh dear....





Mitsuyo Maeda (前田光世, Maeda Mitsuyo^?, November 18, 1878 – November 28, 1941),^[1] a Brazilian naturalized as Otávio Maeda,^[2] was a Japanese judōka and prizefighter in no holds barred competitions. He was also known as Count Combat (or Conde Koma in Brazilian Portuguese), a nickname he picked up in Spain during 1908. Along with Antônio Soishiro Satake (another naturalized Brazilian), he pioneered judo in Brazil, the United Kingdom, and other countries...


Wiki.

[TTEscrima]

Oh dear....





Mitsuyo Maeda (前田光世, Maeda Mitsuyo^?, November 18, 1878 – November 28, 1941),^[1] a Brazilian naturalized as Otávio Maeda,^[2] was a Japanese judōka and prizefighter in no holds barred competitions. He was also known as Count Combat (or Conde Koma in Brazilian Portuguese), a nickname he picked up in Spain during 1908. Along with Antônio Soishiro Satake (another naturalized Brazilian), he pioneered judo in Brazil, the United Kingdom, and other countries...


Wiki.

Heheheheh you beat me to it Tant. It never ceases to amaze me just how little BJJ's biggest supporters seem to know about it.

[jubaji]

Since you said "anyone" and "any"...

It's spelled JIU-JITSU.

It's spelled JUJUTSU.

[jubaji]

Talk to the other corrections officers, you'll find there is a distinct bias against BJJ in their line of work. You are most always outnumbered and while you can't carry a weapon the inmates will have them. In short BJJ will get you killed in very short order.

There's a great post on another forum from a CC officer (on the toxic green and it's by your friend Longrifle, Tant) about a guard who tried to use BJJ to control a prisoner. Longrifle goes into great detail how many times he was stabbed in the kidneys when he shot in, and how he died before they got him to the infirmary.

He also explains how the inmates will either stomp you into oblivion if you're a guard who goes to the ground or stand you back up to fight if its two inmates brawling.

The only place it's more stupid to expect someone to "fight fair" than in the street, is in prison.

..................................

[jubaji]

So, you're saying you don't advocate jumping guard in a self defense situation, you advocate a BJJ takedown and finish?

Which BJJ takedown would you recommend for self defense in the real world?

More specifically which BJJ takedown would you recommend for a correction officer on duty inside the prison system?

What percentage of your daily training is based on this type of response?

What percentage of your daily training includes training while while both you and your opponent are standing up?

What percentage of your training involves practicing takedowns on the sidewalk and concrete?

What percentage involves an armed opponent?

What percentage involves multiple opponents?

What percentage involves one attacker, unarmed, already on the floor, who will not be striking during the training?

What percentage of your daily training focuses on remaining on your feet as the response to an attack?

Now ask yourself what percentage of recorded SD cases or in this case corrections officer duty your training prepares you for.

......................

[jubaji]

This has nothing to do with your screenname and everything to do with your posted advice.

You're trying to change the subject, this was a thread about BJJ for corrections officers. Where you advocated he go for the takedown. Then you tried to weasel out by claiming which takedown you would use depended on his gun, taser or baton.





So now it's not just BJJ you recommend, but the entire MMA curriculum

Oh fer cryin' out loud... this clown never changes his act...

[jubaji]

I've no grudge against any martial art.

AHHAHAHAHAHAAHAhahahahhahaaaahahahaaaAHAHAHAHAAAAAA!!!

[Guest]

TTESCRIMA,

Which art would you recommend for a Corrections Officer who wants to learn some grappling skills for his job?

Why is the grappling art you would recommend different to how BJJ functions?

How would the grappling art you recommend deal with multiple opponents, weaponry, and the other dangers you have highlighted?

Alternatively, would your strategy as a Correction Officer or an Instructor to them, be to not teach any form of Grappling because it is a waste of time?

Therefore, what would be the art you teach for stand up that would 100% negate the need to have any grappling skills?

I look forward to hearing your ideas

Thanks