Much Larger & Stronger Opponent

[rob1_bjj]

I'm interested on anyones thoughts on grappling a much larger and stronger opponent.

I'm looking for strategies and techniques to be used when you are outweighed by well over 50 pounds, and the person is also at least twice as strong as you. (I'm currently working out with a guy who is close to 100 pounds larger than me, and about 3 times as strong as me!!)

If anyone has had good experience dealing with this type of opponent please post what has worked for you (or what you know does not work).

I work primarily with a gi - but all feedback would be great.

Thanks

[Hookah Smokin Caterpillar]

Well, if he's better than you then nothing will work

However, in my experience I always seem to either try my hardest to work off of the top. If I'm in my guard, since I'm somewhat fast for a white belt, I can usually move around and get the back. Now this is where I have trouble, submitting the much larger opponent will always prove difficult.

[sidder]

I weigh about 170 and I once grappled with a 290 lb guy who had about as much experience as I did. He was definitely slower, but stronger and, just by sitting on my throat he was able to suffocate me and I tapped. The next round, I tried letting him start to mount and then umpa-ing hard and slipping in my knee to go for the achilles lock (we agreed on no heel-hooks/twists) and he tapped. I find that the really big dudes tend not to have enough speed and dexterity to get out of achilles locks and heel hooks. The next time, I got him with a single leg, and when we landed in side mount, he was more or less able to bench-press me (even though I could already distribute my weight pretty well at that point) and he took the mount.... I achilles-locked him again. Try it.

[Angel_of_Pain]

My strategie is to shoot for the single leg takedown ala Sakuraba, what i try to do is in no way be under him (if he's on top theres not much to do lol) or in your guard. I like the side mount because you need a lot of quikness dexterity and skill to get out of a good side mount ( I dont know for you but my side mount is my best position) so I cn work arm lock, chokes, kimura, I go for a leg submission from sidemount or a triangle i do it all try to make him use a lot of power tired him pression point him make him pay for been so fat lol then finish it whit a painfull maneuver

[Oldskulbus]

LIke what Angel of Pain said...

Don't be under him. I roll with a friend of mine all the time who is 3bills + (I weigh 185). Once he gets on top of me its all over because he can just sit and I slowly suffocate. Work your mount and side mount. and don't even think about getting him in guard.

[rob1_bjj]

thanks so far for all the tips.

I agree that once they get on top it's basically over if they have some degree of skill.

I was working to get them in my guard but you guys seem to think that that is not a great place to be either.

It sounds like mount and side mount are good starting positions.

thanks again (if anyone else has advice please post it)

[flyinclockchoke]

get on top

if your sparring partner is a good 50-100 pounds heavier than you, and also has technical skills, then you're in trouble...

however, if you have more skillz, in my experience, it's much better to try and sweep him and go to side mount, NOT MOUNT, because with a big guy, your knees might not even reach the ground while you're sitting on top of him.

big guys with little experience are easily controlled when they end up on their backs. i rarely ever use a closed guard against these types of guys because i might not even be able to close my legs around the guy, especially if he's really fat. don't get trapped/pinned under him... sweep him and take your time looking for a submission from the side or top...

peace

[rob1_bjj]

Flyinclockchoke (when I get mount my knee's just hover over the floor) :-) but I have pretty long legs so from guard I can get my ankles crossed.

Any specific sweeps that you find best against these monsters? or combinations of sweeps, or particular set-ups for a sweep??

[JaredExtreme]

I think the best strategy is definetly to get the mount. Here's a good story:

Last winter it snowed like 6 inches here (a rarity in seattle). So me and my roomate decided to go out on campus and participate in some of the snowball fights. While we're out there, he says to me "Hey let's wrestle, I wanna see some jiu-jitsu." So I was like fine. At the time I had about 5 months of jiu-jitsu experience, while he has no fighting experience whatsoever. Also, I'm 5'8 150 and he's around 6'1 220. So, I shot in, did a single leg type trip, which probly took about 5 seconds to accomplish, got the mount and gave him a straight arm bar. I was like, 'whoa shit, that actually worked'. The best part was, it was in front of some of our girl-friends hehe.

[sidder]

Ya. Unless he's got no skills or sense of balance whatsoever, don't bother going for the double leg. Single leg or round-the-back single-leg definitely work best.

[Ryu (JKD?)]

People have already given great advice.
I have to say from constant experience that being on the ground with someone equally as skilled and 60-100 pounds heavier sucks! And it's actually a good thing to think about before you automatically run into the clinch in a streetfight.
But with rolling, I have found that being on the bottom of a good fighter who is extremely bigger and heavier tires you out much more than usual. If he's got a big neck, and you are good with collar chokes (and find yourself on the bottom) I'd say go for those. I have had success catching bigger judoka, etc. in gi chokes, and have also found (at least for me) that kamishihogatame (north and south position) seems to be the pin I can tire them out with, and they cannot escape from.
Try to get on top always.

Take care,
Ryu

[bjjboulder]

TOP

Yea just to add my 2 cents. Everyone is telling you true.

1-Don't be on bottom, abort the guard if you have to, stay on top.
2-The bigger they are...the more important it is to use a choke. Good luck armbarring these guys.

Here is a little scale to set things straight.

The positional value scale of BJJ

+5 Backmount
+4 Mount
+3 Knee on belly
+2 side control
+1 Inside their guard
0 nuetral--both tied up standing or kneeling
-1 Having them in your guard
-2 Being held in side control
-3 Being held in knee on belly
-4 Being mounted
-5 they're on your back

So you can see...having someone in your guard actually has a negative value. You should always evaluate where you are on the scale during a fight and try to always improve your value.

[rob1_bjj]

thanks again everyone for all the feedback - keep it coming if anyone else has some good experience.

I like the value system - that makes alot of sense (is that your personal opinion, or just standard bjj?)

[Ryu (JKD?)]

BJJboulder,
where do you place north and south position in that value scale?
I didn't see it, and have had great success with it whether it be simple pinning, or transition into other holds, locks, or even strikes.

Ryu

[Monkey Magic]

Eat the stone peaches. Then you will become invulnerable.