Desire, Athleticism or Skill.

[Ian The Machine Freeman]

I was asked this question by Ronin from this forum:

"What do you feel is the most important thing about you that has made you successful as a fighter?"

Is it: Desire, Natural Athleticism or Skill training?

Here is my answer:

Desire : The desire to win and to drive through any situation no matter how hard it gets. If he is training 2 hours a day, then you should train 3 hours a day. If he is putting 100% into a fight, then you should put 110% into a fight. Heart is something you have or you don't.

Natural Athleticism : You can make a fighter, but you are born a champion. You can train to become a great fighter, but natural athleticism is something that is within you. Training only brings it out further.

Skill training : If not only you, but your opponent have desire and natural athleticism, then skill will come into play. Both are hungry for victory, both are born champions, but the skilled man will prevail.

WHAT WOULD YOU HAVE CHOSEN?

Lets see how you fighters tick.

[rockinronnie]

Desire is desire, it doesn't matter if you desire to be a scientist, an architect, or if you desire to be a NHB champion some day. It is something that is in all of us in varying degrees. Desires come and go - they can be short-term or long. We all NEVER stop desiring, some just disire more than others. Ian, you desire to be a UFC Champion. I have the utmost respect for you in desiring to do this. All the best to you in your quest my friend. I will be paying close attention to your future fights.

If you desire to be a UFC Champion, then athleticism plays the next biggest role. If you are the type that is not athletic, then your desires in life would not "mold" around that. As far as athleticism goes, some are cut from a mold at birth to be truly athletic, and "gifted" in that area. I have a friend who enjoys JKD and he puts a lot of time and energy into his "desire", but he is not one of those that was gifted athletically, so he doesn't posess the attributes to be, lets say, a NHB champion (and I'm almost 100% sure that he doesn't desire to be that either).

Skills would be the last to aquire of the three (to learn and hone the skills necessary to be a NHB champion). We all have daily "life skills" that we have learned from birth, ie; crawling, standing, walking, running, jumping, and the list goes on and on. But the skills necessary to be a complete fighter come from previous life skills, desires and athleticism.

Ian is one who posesses all the above skills to make it to the top in this chosen field. Again, all the best Ian.

Ronnie.

_______________________________
A straight arm's still a broken arm - Master JPF

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Desire, humans are capable of many great things. Unfortunatly its more a mental obstecle that prevents the person from attaining their goals. If your desire and motavation is strong and persistant enough, you can achieve anything!

Look at most of the top atheletes and fighters, once your at the stop, any person on any given day can and will win. Its the question of how big your heart is and how badly you want it. You want to make it happen, then sooner or later you'll get it!

[Ronin]

I'm sure you-know-who is going to eat me alive for this, but here goes:

I don't see Desire/Gameness as a big factor in MMA matches, if only because most of these guys have a lot of chutzpah to start with. I mean, first of all you need to have balls of iron to even get into a freaking CAGE with a man who has been training his entire life specifically to rip your lungs out.

We all know of fighters who tend to gas out quickly or tap from a little bit of punishment, but they are exception rather than the rule.

By the same token, differences in athleticism are also minimal, with the exception of a few freaks like Mark Kerr (strength), Igor Vovchanchin (punching power), or Frank Shamrock (stamina).

Skill and Strategy are most often the key determinants in who wins a MMA match, IMO. Bad strategy means wasted effort, and opportunities for your opponent to capitalize. Even a game, athletic fighter can perform poorly due to bad strategy and get beaten by a skilled fighter who sticks to a smart game-plan. So, I believe that comprehensive skill is the crucial factor a fighter needs to be successful. Desire is such a given that I don't see it playing a huge role in MMA.

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

Im going to have to disagree with you respectfully friend! Not too many people are born with exceptional natural athletic talents. With desire, you can make yourself push to the limits and develop them. Same with skill and power. Frank Shamrock did not simply use his "gifts" and kick ass in NHB. Look at his first fight with Lober! I am a firm believer in mind over matter. With the proper desire you can DEVELOP skill and stamina, practice, practice, practice.

Some of us are gifted in some ways, many are not the people who take the time and effort, the people who have the desire and HEART, should prevail!
Heart is a unique characteristc. Other factors such as skill and stamina can be developed with hard work!

[YeLLa-TiGeR]

BTW, I also think stratagies are made from experience and good coaching combined with evaluating your strengths and weaknesses.

[duchman]

Desire, Natural Athleticism or Skill training?

Desire Desire Desire !!

Desire can create Athleticism and Skill.
Natural Athleticism makes allot of guys cocky (sp?).
They will think "i dont have to train i'm just better"
But if you dont train you are nothing

[Joe Manco]

Ronin:
You haven't jumped off that building yet I see. Pity. Anyway, here's a quote from the arcane files of the Sanscrit that will help clarify this question:

"Nothing in the world can take the place of persistence. Talent will not; nothing is more common than unsuccessful men with talent. Genius will not; unrewarded genius is almost a proverb. Education (skill) will not; the world is filled with educated/skilled derelicts. Persistence and determination alone are omnipotent."

Yours truly,

Joe

[Ronin]

Joe:

What a surprise! An insulting message from you on this thread! LMAO. Predictable as ever, Pit Puppy. Must be Pavlovian conditioning. Do you salivate when you hear a bell ring?

Obviously gameness is a prerequisite for a top fighter, and you can probably argue that there are significant differences in gameness between the top, middle, and lower brackets in MMA.

But within any one class, the difference is not that great, IMHO. For instance, you and I disagree vehemently on the result of the Royce/Sakuraba fight. You believe that Royce's lack of gameness caused him to lose the fight. I believe that it was lack of skill, specifically strike defense, and a poor strategy which consisted of throwing a barrage of ineffective punches. In fact, you might even say that Royce was too game trying to whip Sak's ass with punches, when he doesn't have the training or build for it. Sometimes you can try too hard.

Also, as I have pointed out before, Oleg Taktarov is probably the gamest fighter in MMA, as far as absolutely REFUSING to quit even when taking horrific beatings. But, although he is very good, he is not the best. Why? Because his style of fighting is incomplete, and is lacking in offensive firepower. What you call a lack of gameness, i.e. Oleg's occasional passivity, I see as a lack of skill and strategy. He just can't fight well from his back. A lot of BJJ'ers have the same problem. I wonder if he even knows that it's a problem? Like Royce, he probably feels that his style of Sambo has an answer for everything. I think a lot of these guys stopped learning a few years ago.

So anyway, rather than turn into a new Darren, I'll cut this short and just say I agree with you and Ian the Machine when you say that Desire and Athleticism are necessary ingredients for a top fighter.

But ultimately, Skill prevails. Most of the time, anyway.

Oh, BTW, I'll take my job prospects over those of a dead game moron any day.

[Joe Manco]

Ronin:

I only salivate when your ex-girlfriend comes over for more.

As for Royce, that's funny. I thought there was no winner in that fight ... until he quit.

Yours truly,

Joe

[Playa]

What are you talkin about Ronin? Taktarov, every time I see that guy he's covered in blood receiving the beating of a lifetime from some dude. Then he goes with Renzo and Renzo stick his damn foot right in his face and knock him silly. The only time I don't see him get splattered is when he spend like an hour with Tank on top of him, and then none of them get up when it's over!!

I don't know what gameness means unless you mean it's time for opponent to play favorite UFC game: "let's beat crap out of Taktarov!" If you mean being like a tough guy or whatever, that ain't being tough. Taktarov is just a damn fool being made into prison ho!

I've seen that quote before Joe Manco, I think that's what it is right there.

[Ronin]

Sorry, Pit Slob, I'm not falling for it this time.

Go back to mail-ordering some more underage bimbos off the Internet.

I'm sure YOU would have done much better against Sakuraba with a broken foot. LOL.

Don't you know Royce personally? I'm surprised you would even make comments about his courage given that. Then again, maybe that's why you live in the middle of nowhere surrounded by dogs and guns. Smart move!

[Ronin]

Playa:

Like I said, Oleg may not have been the smoothest fighter in the world, but he is famous for having never tapped to anyone, regardless of how much trouble he was in. For that alone he would deserve respect, but he has also beaten Ruas and out-lasted Tank. Who cares that he didn't get up? He won.

He's also a very nice guy, a good actor (I hear), and has a hot wife. What else does he need?

[Playa]

Well if he got a hot wife then he don't need any more dates with Tank Abbott!

Way go go Oleg, my man.

[Ronin]

Playa:

I wonder if he and Tank got a divorce, or if their "marriage" wasn't legally binding. Good thing! As the wife, Tank would have been entitled to 1/2 of Oleg's future earnnings in the state of California.