"Real" Streetfighting

[Guest]

I don't know what H2H training the SAS actually get to be honest. I know they have this amazing (yet becoming increasingly tarnished) reputation, but I haven't seen much evidence of their unarmed fighting training being all that wonderful.

[DRLashambe]

I hadn't heard that the reputation of the SAS had taken knocks. The seminar that I took (and again it was mostly taught by Tim Murray, the former Marine) was based mostly around disarming opponents with weapons. While I hope that I never end up in that situation, I felt fairly certain that individuals had been there and done that. Most of the maneuvers resembled (but weren't exactly like) the Krav Naga disarms I've seen in videos.

[Guest]

The problem is that people throw the name of the SAS (and similar units) around all the time.

As regards for their reputation being tarnished, much of it stems from the "heroic" story of Bravo Two Zero. The more these "heroics" were investigated, the more they were shown to be lies and massive exagerations.

I did, though, see a documentary about the Emassy Seige last summer. It was new, and included interviews with many of the people involved, including three of the original SAS players. Threy came across very well, in my view. And at least what they said could be verified by the survivors (even the bits where they executed men who were trying to surrender).

I think they have become victims of their reputation. The newer ones bull-shitting away in an attempt to live up to it.

[DRLashambe]

Bravo Two Zero is my best friend's favorite book, he's going to be devastated when he hears that. As our de facto Brit, do you find a lot of MA instructors claiming association with the SAS so that they can try to piggy-back on the reputation? In North America, it happens constantly with guys who try to make Navy SEAL connections to their MA seminars and schools.

[Guest]

Yes. Even if an instructor trains an ex SAS man for one lesson, he then becomes "Trainer to the SAS".

Re Bravo Two Zero. Tell your mate to buy "The one that got away" by Chris Ryan, another patrol member. As the title implies, he was the only one to escape to freedom. But there are clear contradictions between his version of events and McNab's.

The worst example is when they were compromised by a little boy whilst hiding in a Wadi. McNab says the 8 of them all fought together as a fighting force, and overcame the Iraqis who were vastly outnumbered. They killed them all. But Ryan outlines how they ran away from this fighting force,and wree lucky to escape with their lives. The two accounts have many unfortunate contradictions.

Another guy (who's name I cannot remember) did a documentary on the whole mission. He is ex SAS, but was not in the regiment when the Gulf War took place. He tried to re-create the claims as regards how far they marched in the desert etc. He came to the conclusion that it was nonsense. This guy has lived with the Bedouin for many years, and knows their language and customs. He found Iraqi people who had been involved in some of these escapeds, including the little boy (now a young man of course).

This lads story is very different. There was just him, his Dad and his uncle. Admittedly the uncle was ex Iraqi special forces, but that was coincidental, and he was not a serving soldier at the time of the conflict. All that happened is that his dad and uncle opened fire with their bog standard rifles, and the 8 super soldiers ran off.

I have no ax to grind either way. I'm not anti SAS. But I believed the people who were interviewed about this, and other, claims.

This old ex SAS guy has a boolk out at the moment, entitled something like "The Truth about Bravo Two Zero. Get your mate to have a read and see what he thinks.

[DRLashambe]

He has read "The One That Got Away," and considers Chris Ryan to have been the only member of Bravo Two Zero to have understood just how far North they were. I saw the movie that the BBC made of "Bravo Two Zero" and that battle seemed damn near impossible (I had really started to think of the SAS as nearly superhuman). Chris Ryan also has a work-out book available. My friend became a health nut after reading, and recently visited the UK where one of his goals was to jog Pen-y-aur Fan (I don't know if spelled that correctly). The local authorities told him that while it wasn't technically government land, they didn't want him to go out there. He spent the day in the pub instead.

[Guest]

I think he was wise........

Heres another myth blaster. I read McNabs second book (can't remember what it was called). It outlined his early life and military experiences. In it he says that, to get in the SAS, many people have "contacts" who take them over the forced marching routes before hand. That way they know where to go without getting lost, as well as knowinthe best shortcuts etc. To me its like admitting that you cheat in an exam, yet still want all the cred for passing.

As he ran out of "interesting" tales about his past he went onto explain his involvement in missions where nothing had actually happened. But he says "if we had been attacked we would have done this......." and then prattles on like a wanker.

I bet there are real SAS heroes out there who have stayed silent about their deeds. And I bet they would like to kick the shit out of Andy McNab and crew.

[DRLashambe]

It was called "Immediate Action." The best SAS book I've read (it was a bit heavy on details, mind you) was SAS: Secret War. It was about the Oman campaign where the idea was to win over the "hearts and minds" of the local people. It should have been required reading for the coalition commanders in Iraq.

I don't want to Andy bash too much; if it wasn't for him, I wouldn't know terms like "taking the piss," and "wanker."

Sorry to everyone else for getting off topic, military Special Forces is a bit of a hobby of mine.