Why is Kung Fu not considered to be truly effective in actual combat?

[jmd161]

if you prepare, you can be prepared. If you do not prepare, you can NEVER be prepared.

If you prepare you'll be better off than if you did'nt try ,but you will NEVER be prepared for the street!! You can be more aware of what's going on ,but that does'nt make you prepared.

What our idiot friend JMD is doing is discouraging people from giving themselevs a chance, merely because he does not know how to do it himself.

Again, with the name calling....

I'm giving people the HONEST truth from the streets ,not trying to make money off them with any books,videos,seminars or ,any other money making schemes!!

I nevar said that ppl should not do it , i said that ppl should not believe that they will be "prepared" for the streets ,because they did this stuff. It might make ppl more aware of stuff they were'nt before ,but that does'nt make you prepared for the streets.

jeff

[Thai Bri]

You never said they should not be prepared? But they can't be prepared? Eh? Illogical, my idiot friend.

By the way, I missed the part where I said I was some "bad ass". Just like in the other thread where I missed the part where I said "any training is better than no training".

Its a bit desparate to make things up mate. Mind you, once again, why not post the thread wher I said these things?

Any independant reader of these threads can see that you're making things up as you go along.

[jmd161]

You never said they should not be prepared? But they can't be prepared? Eh? Illogical, my idiot friend.

I never said that ppl should'nt try!! But no matter how much you "TRY" to be prepared ,you'll never be PREPARED!!!

By the way, I missed the part where I said I was some "bad ass".

You did'nt have to say it Bri ,your attitude on this forum shows that.

Just like in the other thread where I missed the part where I said "any training is better than no training".

Its a bit desparate to make things up mate. Mind you, once again, why not post the thread wher I said these things?

Any independant reader of these threads can see that you're making things up as you go along.

Bri like i said in the other thread fine!! I have no need or want to carry on an argument on an internet forum.

What does it prove?!?!

You are obviously a very bitter person in life ,and thrive off posing and arguing on this forum. I have no desire for any of those two things ,if you want to discuss thing's fine ,but i don't have time for name calling or arguing on a forum. It really makes you ,and i both look stupid ,and immuture!!

So go ahead and pose or hurl insults ,whatever you're going to do to answer this post. I'm sure you'll think of something very witty to say in response.

jeff

[Thai Bri]

Jeff. You're consisently saying things that cannot be backed up, and are trying to save face by taking the moral high ground.

You freely took part in this internet argument. You're just sore because you lost. Look at your own posts. Hardly particularly adult are they? Im afraid you've not got the footing to climb that moral high ground Jeff. You're even more in the mud than I, because you lie to yourself.

Mate.

[jmd161]

Jeff. You're consisently saying things that cannot be backed up, and are trying to save face by taking the moral high ground.

You freely took part in this internet argument. You're just sore because you lost. Look at your own posts. Hardly particularly adult are they? Im afraid you've not got the footing to climb that moral high ground Jeff. You're even more in the mud than I, because you lie to yourself.

Mate.

Bri,

Although, i took part in the argument ,i did not call you out of your name until you kept calling me out of mine. Even when i pointed out no need for name calling ,you continued to use words like "idiot"

I decided to take the high road ,because the low road was not taking us anywhere. I really meant what i said ,i don't come to forums to argue. I come to offer insight into TCMA ,many ppl do not understand TMA. I try to explain to ppl that TMA is a lot more similar to MMA than ppl think.

jeff

[Thai Bri]

But that is not correct.

MMA train in realistic ways. They also fight in realistic ways. Yes, they have rules, to ensure that some of the more lethal strikes and grappling moves are not used in competition, but their training methods are far in advance of TMA.

For example. How best to train a right cross? I'll outline the common methods of each, and let the readers decide.

TMA - punch thin air time and time again from a stationary stance. Often keep your hand held out at the far end of the punch, so that the "Master" can check that your hand and arm are at the "correc" angle. Spar, but pull the punch on impact, ensuring you don't hurt your training partner.

MMA - hit pads and bags thousands and thousands of times. Constantly move around like you would in a real fight. Then don some protective gar and hit resisiting opponents with it, people who are trying to hit you back!

I think most people from OUTSIDE the martial arts would easily see the differences. And they would easily see which is best. Only those who have a) invested many years into TMA and b) haven't got the strength of character to step out of their comfort zone will fal to see these things.

After all, there's none so blind as those who will not see.

ps- I await the mis quote from you.

[jmd161]

But that is not correct.

MMA train in realistic ways. They also fight in realistic ways. Yes, they have rules, to ensure that some of the more lethal strikes and grappling moves are not used in competition, but their training methods are far in advance of TMA.

And how do you know that they are far superior over TMA? Have you trained at every TMA school in The UK,US,Japan,China or world for that matter???

For example. How best to train a right cross? I'll outline the common methods of each, and let the readers decide.

So TMA's don't train right crosses on ,or against a real person???

I don't know what type of TMA school you attended ,but you got duped out of your money!!

TMA - punch thin air time and time again from a stationary stance. Often keep your hand held out at the far end of the punch, so that the "Master" can check that your hand and arm are at the "correc" angle. Spar, but pull the punch on impact, ensuring you don't hurt your training partner.

Bri, once again you prove that you don't understand TMA. I've been to MMA and boxing schools that shadow box ,so what's your point here???

Some schools do pull punches some don't spar at all ,but it is FOOLISH to think that all TMA schools train that way.

MMA - hit pads and bags thousands and thousands of times. Constantly move around like you would in a real fight. Then don some protective gar and hit resisiting opponents with it, people who are trying to hit you back!

So you've never seen ppl punch,kick or strike bags or pads at a TMA school??

Wow! ,somebody really suckerd you guys into their school ,and training program!!

And you've never seen a TMA school do full contact sparring or fighting??

I'll name one person Bas Rutten a kick boxer that's a great fighter , how many ppl have YOU seen beat Bas???

I think most people from OUTSIDE the martial arts would easily see the differences. And they would easily see which is best. Only those who have a) invested many years into TMA and b) haven't got the strength of character to step out of their comfort zone will fal to see these things.

Bri, i think they only thing your post proved ,was that you were taken by a Mc Dojo!! And instead of admiting that ,you choose to bash ALL TMA's.

After all, there's none so blind as those who will not see.

Do you see the irony in that statement?!?!

ps- I await the mis quote from you.

I don't follow you there ,is that another way of you trying to be sarcastic???

jeff

[Thai Bri]

No, I have not trained at every TMA school. But I have yet to see anyone use TMA in full contact competition and win. I've seen people like Kimo claim to be from, say, TKD. But when he fights, he wrestles! Flawed logic on your part I think.

Do go on about how TMA train right crosses against a real person. I'd be interested to hear the details.

Yes, Boxing and MMA shadow box. It is a good warm up, and also good "spontaneity" training. BUT THEY SPEND MOST OF THEIR TIME TRAINING AGAINST PADS AND PARTNERS! Just how many times are people going to compare arts that hit thin air all day to arts that do one or two short rounds of shadow boxng to warm up for harder training?

Yes. I hit pads in Shukokai Karate. In fact I learned to hit real ard this way. But it was totally static in nature and, also, it was the only good point of the style. Almost no other Karate or Kung Fu schools actually had their students hit anything at all! And whee the fluck do you et off on using a Kick boxer to back up your argument? Kick boxing was set up to overcome the limitations of the TMAs. Bas is an outstanding MMA fighter, who also studes the reality stule of Krav Maga. Do tell us where he dons a Gi and trains in Karate, Kung Fu or TKD......... Not the best example for your arguments, is he!

My "I await the misquotes" line is reference to your immature habit of claiming that In have said things (like that "any training is better than no training" etc.) and then being totally unable to back up the claim. Because it isn't true......

You are inside out and upside down. Fancy, using Bas Rutten as an example of a traditional martial artist. You dick.

[KopyKat]

I just think its hilarious how jmd didn't see what Bri was saying in the first place, he never once said it would prepare you for the streets 100% but jmd kept assuming that lol

[jmd161]

No, I have not trained at every TMA school. But I have yet to see anyone use TMA in full contact competition and win. I've seen people like Kimo claim to be from, say, TKD. But when he fights, he wrestles! Flawed logic on your part I think.

ohh boy here we go with the competiton crap!!

You know what Bri?

You're exactly what i thought you were. Some one that sits at home watching Pride/UFC ,and other NHB events ,and then gets on a keyboard and talks like they've fought someone!!

Do go on about how TMA train right crosses against a real person. I'd be interested to hear the details.

How many different ways are there to punch Bri??

No matter what style you claim or don't claim ,there are only so many ways to throw punches. If you think MMA or Boxing created something new in punching? well...

Yes, Boxing and MMA shadow box. It is a good warm up, and also good "spontaneity" training. BUT THEY SPEND MOST OF THEIR TIME TRAINING AGAINST PADS AND PARTNERS! Just how many times are people going to compare arts that hit thin air all day to arts that do one or two short rounds of shadow boxng to warm up for harder training?

Until people like yourself understand that punching and kicking in thin air is also a way to warm up the body in TMA!! Duh!!

It does'nt take a genius to see that many things are done alike in many arts.

Yes. I hit pads in Shukokai Karate. In fact I learned to hit real ard this way. But it was totally static in nature and, also, it was the only good point of the style. Almost no other Karate or Kung Fu schools actually had their students hit anything at all! And whee the fluck do you et off on using a Kick boxer to back up your argument? Kick boxing was set up to overcome the limitations of the TMAs. Bas is an outstanding MMA fighter, who also studes the reality stule of Krav Maga. Do tell us where he dons a Gi and trains in Karate, Kung Fu or TKD......... Not the best example for your arguments, is he!

Hmmm

How many MMA,boxing or kick boxing schools do you see using palm strikes???

The reality style of Krav Maga huh? lol

My "I await the misquotes" line is reference to your immature habit of claiming that In have said things (like that "any training is better than no training" etc.) and then being totally unable to back up the claim. Because it isn't true......

Bri, You keep stating that the police have experience over the average teen because they have training and the teen does'nt!!! So i asked you when we first started this discussion ,how is no training better than none with other things ,but not TMA???

You are inside out and upside down. Fancy, using Bas Rutten as an example of a traditional martial artist. You dick.

I still won't stoop to your level!!

So you can continue with the insults all you want.


jeff

[jmd161]

I just think its hilarious how jmd didn't see what Bri was saying in the first place, he never once said it would prepare you for the streets 100% but jmd kept assuming that lol

I'm not assuming that ,so you are wrong!!

How much does that training prepare you for the street Kopy Kat ,since you want to jump in here????

(1)10%

(2)30%

(3)50%

(4)70%

(5) 90%

I want to hear your answer ,and how you came to that conclusion?!?!!

jeff

[Thai Bri]

I just think its hilarious how jmd didn't see what Bri was saying in the first place, he never once said it would prepare you for the streets 100% but jmd kept assuming that lol

Haw haw haw. I've even said that nothing is 100%, but he only reads the bits he wants to read.

JMD - I'm the guy preparing for the streets, not the ring. I have a few UFC tyupe vids, but rarely watch them. I know of the difference between reality based methods and MMA sporting methods...... But I opine that the TMA are NOT contenders to either. Its a bit like asking which is best, a Rolls Royce, a BMW.... or an old pedal cycle. Guess which art the pedal cycle is.

There are a great many different ways to punch. Not only are there different punches (left jab, left hook, right corss etc. etc.), there ae also many different ways to perform each of them. The difference between TMAs and MMAs is that the MMA needs to find the most effective method (as does the Boxer and Kick Boxer etc.) as his safety in the ring depends on it. However, TMAs most often rely on what is most aesthetic, i.e. what looks best. They do NOT risk their faces testing their techniques, and can safely claim ability without pressure testing it. This is like giving lessons to a complete beginner.

If punching thin air is merely a way to warm the bod up in TMA - THE VAST MAJORITY OF THE TIME IS SPENT WARMING UP!!!!! Haw haw haw!

I have no idea what you ae on about re the palm stries line,

As regards "training or no training - which is best" I think anyone with a brain can see that I have made myself perfectly clear. Training and experience can prepare you for just about anything. But, of course, BAD training (like Kata) can undermine you and reduce your chances.

You keep going off at a tangent. I never said that BAD training is better than no training you moron. I said the opposite. You don't seem to be able to see that some training can be good, and some training can be bad. I think this is a cenbtral flaw in your logic. You think that any old art will help make you better at fighting..... It won't. And, heres the double whammy, you simultaneously don't think that ANY training can make you prepared. You cannot rationally hold both views at once.

It is this simple. Good training can prepare you. Bad training can undermine you. Get it?

Heres something to think about. We all know of TMA people who have moved on to MMA, even Reality Based arts. Do you know of any of them who have moved back?

[Thai Bri]

I'm not assuming that ,so you are wrong!!

How much does that training prepare you for the street Kopy Kat ,since you want to jump in here????

(1)10%

(2)30%

(3)50%

(4)70%

(5) 90%

I want to hear your answer ,and how you came to that conclusion?!?!!

jeff

The answer is easy of course. The better qualityand quantity of training will have a direct bearing on your percentage chance. It is, of course, ridiculous to try and get anyone to put an exact figure on it, as the threats faced will vary each and every time.

[KopyKat]

Probably not all that much, im not answering your stupid question, depending on the person/situation that percentage can change and as smart as you think you are there is no percentage, anything can happen. BUT im just commenting on your lack of reading skills. From you are saying to Bri im getting the impression that someone with 0, (thats ZERO if you can't read) skills of any sort WHATSOEVER will be just as well off on the streets as someone that has at least some knowledge of what might happen, some knowledge of basic self defense, some knowledge of aiming and firing a gun, some knowledge of anything that has to do with being street smart. That just makes no sense, and YES im taking into account that anything can happen, YES that training could all mean absolutely nothing in a certain scenario where a guy has a gun to your head, but the guy with training i think its safe to say in most or at least some situations (Not 100%) has a better chance of survival...

[Thai Bri]

Thanks! Its so obvious isnt it!

And, even better, the guy wit the training and experience has the best chance of avoiding having a gun to his head in the first place!!!!!

JMD. Up is up and down is down. It really is that obvious.