Getting weaker, Or getting stronger?

[gong fu]

boarspear you forgot, to say that the dit da jow should be left on your skin for about 1 hour after you train, and also dont just apply the dit da jow its all in the way you rub it into your skin, warm up your hands rub them together, then massage it in, apply just as much as you need to cover the area not to much not too little, and remember to store it in a place wich is cool and no light can get to it, the longer you keep it the better it works, if your making home made dit da jow, store it in a dark bottle aswell never clear glass or plastic, not even dark plastic.

just pointing out no dissrrespect man.

[Oraenor]

yes exactly boarspear, those who do not contition there body will damage thereself in a fight, and oreanor hmm i dont agree with what you say, if a non conditioned fighter is trding blows with a all round body conditioned fighter, the one who hasnt conditioned will be crushed simple as that, his bones muscle density and general toughness will crumble to the conditioned mans blows or grappling, what is going to win if you smack them together, a steel pole, or a wooden stick of same size? that is what the comparrison is with non conditioned and fully conditioned fighters. use common sense, if you hit hard against soft, the soft gives way.

Do you train to get hit or do you train to avoid a hit? I train to avoid a hit and if I take one, that means I'm too slow! Heres your flaw in conditioning- you can never be too conditioned, what I mean is that if you meet someone with hard boots or a hard spiked brace then your limbs are wood and their extra armour becomes the steel.All TCMA will agree that "to attack and counter attack is far more efficient than to defend and attack" and that my friend works in the way of the tao.

If hard hits soft, soft gives way; there is a flaw in that truth and yet there is also a truth in the matter. I know all the internal practitioners in this forum will give you an instruction manual on this quote!

[ddrive]

Modern vs Traditional

personally i believe martial artists and fighters in general are getting weaker as the years go by, yeah we may look better on the outside now days, but compared to the old traditional ways that seem to be dying out, in my opinion we are slacking, the old ways should not be left to die out, modern fighters may look tough but there conditioning is weak, the more we rely on equipment to train with and padding to protect us, we are losing touch with real training methods.

One thing that you fail to mention is amount of time that today's martial artist has to train and still function in modern society. Shaolin Monks would spend 8- 10 hours a day training in the monastery centuries ago while the average martial artist has only 2-3 hours daily to practice. The flipside to this is, because of the lack of time we have to train, we have developed fitness machines and equipment that can give a good workout in a short amount of time. If a modern figther were able to train as extensively as monks, we could reach plateau of spirit, strength, speed, and stamina.

[gong fu]

Oraenor, im aware of the teachings of the Dao, ive studied taiji for over 15 years, and i have also conditioned my body for aslong as i have studied taiji, i do not use force on force intentionally in a fight, and you said you train to avoid getting hit and you dont train taking hits? just avoiding them, ive spent years training to avoid hits, but also how to take them and harden up, in a fight you usually always take hits, and if you fight decent apponents then you should know, getting hit is inevitable and by the sounds of it you would crumble if i struck you, no offence tho just observation and comparrison to your weak training,


and ddrive im a personal trainer by proffession, so i train when i work, i train when i wake, i train before i sleep, i train for my enjoyment, i train with my best friend, i train with my wife, i wake at 5 am every morning for 2 hours of training before breakfast, i incorperate shaolin training every day into my routine, every training method a shaolin monk does i also do, the only difference between me and a shaolin monk is the diet i eat alot better than them i get more vitimins minerals, and alot more protien and iron, and also im married they lead lives of celibecy maybe few other minor differences, but yeah anyways i actually train as much as shaolin monks do, and still manage to lead a good life in the west.



people make excuses for weaknesses haha weakness cannot be excused.

[Oraenor]

Oraenor, im aware of the teachings of the Dao, ive studied taiji for over 15 years, and i have also conditioned my body for aslong as i have studied taiji, i do not use force on force intentionally in a fight, and you said you train to avoid getting hit and you dont train taking hits? just avoiding them, ive spent years training to avoid hits, but also how to take them and harden up, in a fight you usually always take hits, and if you fight decent apponents then you should know, getting hit is inevitable and by the sounds of it you would crumble if i struck you, no offence tho just observation and comparrison to your weak training,

No offence taken.
your beginning to sound more like a boxer you realise, perhaps you should do boxing instead.
There is a reason why we use an open guard rather than the closed one of boxers, so we can have enough time to deflect the attack and counter at the same time or atleast set up an offensive. Boxers use a close guard so the can "take a hit".
It is true sometimes one takes hits but that is where sparing and training comes in to brush up those rusty techniques and fine tune the sensitivity and reaction time.Sparing and drills are the most important aspect of martial arts, not conditioning and I am 100% sure that people of the other factions, including this one will agree with me that sparing is the most important aspect of martial arts.Of all the posts, you have not mentioned one bit about sparing so that is perhaps the aspect that you must brush up on.
Me crumble? I aint no twix bar or cookie. You speak of your shaolin art and training so high, so very un buddhist or taoist of you! Let me tell you a secret, shaolin is a communist propaganda tool to make china look better, its martial arts died out when the red guard obliterated everything. I hope your not too upset about that.

[gong fu]

i do box, i study alot of styles, and about drills and sparring, yes but if you sparr like a pussy with gloves and pads its not realistic, and drills? many drills are to condition your body, the most important thing in martial arts is the basics, never neglect the basics, and to learn and progress in mind and body, how can you progress to my level without conditioning, seriously your bone is alot weaker than mine, and dont think i lose flexibility with conditioning, my joints are in top shape and form, when you condition your bones, muscles and skin you get alot tougher and more durable, if done correctly it does no long term harm atall to your body and it conditions the mind to overcome pain and hardship. with conditioning the bone condenses and hardens, your bone is not actually solid, it has thousand of tiny pockets inside it, and with correct conditioning you compress them so its less brittle with shaolin conditioning you can make each bone 4 to 5 times stronger than the average mans, and thats a fact look it up if you want, and who says you cant use a style like taiji when your fully conditioned.

[Oraenor]

i do box, i study alot of styles, and about drills and sparring, yes but if you sparr like a pussy with gloves and pads its not realistic, and drills? many drills are to condition your body, the most important thing in martial arts is the basics, never neglect the basics, and to learn and progress in mind and body, how can you progress to my level without conditioning, seriously your bone is alot weaker than mine, and dont think i lose flexibility with conditioning, my joints are in top shape and form, when you condition your bones, muscles and skin you get alot tougher and more durable, if done correctly it does no long term harm atall to your body and it conditions the mind to overcome pain and hardship. with conditioning the bone condenses and hardens, your bone is not actually solid, it has thousand of tiny pockets inside it, and with correct conditioning you compress them so its less brittle with shaolin conditioning you can make each bone 4 to 5 times stronger than the average mans, and thats a fact look it up if you want, and who says you cant use a style like taiji when your fully conditioned.

Those naive milk lovers....all they needed was some shaolin conditioning, not calcium to harden bones, well all those years that I studied science are thrown out the door!
I would very much like to look up the site where you got this information from but on one condition, it has to be a medical site and not a shaolin one.

[gong fu]

who said i get my infomation from a site, and ok i will find a scientific site about it for you if youd like, hold on

[BoarSpear]

Do you train to get hit or do you train to avoid a hit? I train to avoid a hit and if I take one, that means I'm too slow! Heres your flaw in conditioning- you can never be too conditioned, what I mean is that if you meet someone with hard boots or a hard spiked brace then your limbs are wood and their extra armour becomes the steel.All TCMA will agree that "to attack and counter attack is far more efficient than to defend and attack" and that my friend works in the way of the tao.

If hard hits soft, soft gives way; there is a flaw in that truth and yet there is also a truth in the matter. I know all the internal practitioners in this forum will give you an instruction manual on this quote!

My first rule is never get hit.
My second rule rule is ALWAYS punish the asshole for trying to hit you.

now sometimes (usually in a real fight) the other guy lands something, regardless of how well you move...i seem to remember Ali was pretty hard to hit, but he got hit

when i hit someone i want to be sure i can inflict maximum damage without fear of injury to the attacking weapon.

I have noticed the people who critcize training methods like Iron palm training usually dont understand the concept at all.

the object is not to beat your body into things the idea is that if you practice a strike 3 times a day for 20 minutes at a time for years you become very proficient at that strike. Striking different types of material in order to learn to hit different ways is a nice benifit of the training. if you doubt you learn different ways to hit from hitting different things, punch or slap 50lb bags of sand, rice, wood CHIPS, rocks, cotton, then try coolers full of water. you will find each one teaches a different type snap as you send the force into the medium without it hurting your hand...if you are bleeding, or sore, raw etc you are doing it wrong, sometimes a pointy rock gets you or a splinter from wood chips, buts thats about it for risk...ive got around 20 years of daily various hand and foot conditioning experience with no ill effects, my teacher is in his 70's with no arthritis

[Oraenor]

My first rule is never get hit.
My second rule rule is ALWAYS punish the asshole for trying to hit you.

now sometimes (usually in a real fight) the other guy lands something, regardless of how well you move...i seem to remember Ali was pretty hard to hit, but he got hit

when i hit someone i want to be sure i can inflict maximum damage without fear of injury to the attacking weapon.

I have noticed the people who critcize training methods like Iron palm training usually dont understand the concept at all.

the object is not to beat your body into things the idea is that if you practice a strike 3 times a day for 20 minutes at a time for years you become very proficient at that strike. Striking different types of material in order to learn to hit different ways is a nice benifit of the training. if you doubt you learn different ways to hit from hitting different things, punch or slap 50lb bags of sand, rice, wood CHIPS, rocks, cotton, then try coolers full of water. you will find each one teaches a different type snap as you send the force into the medium without it hurting your hand...if you are bleeding, or sore, raw etc you are doing it wrong, sometimes a pointy rock gets you or a splinter from wood chips, buts thats about it for risk...ive got around 20 years of daily various hand and foot conditioning experience with no ill effects, my teacher is in his 70's with no arthritis

I agree, avoid getting hit and neutralise the enemy.

I am not dissing iron palm out, I am talking about those who condition on brick walls or hard solid surfaces.Iron palm is not the concern if trained properly, but my concern is those who punch brick walls and call it conitioning.

As for taking hits, I have never heard of wong shun lung, lai sil loong, wong fei hung etc. conditioning to take hits but to improve their technique to deal more damage, act faster and use more evasive techniques. Ali is a bad example of CMA since he fights in a different manner.

[BoarSpear]

I agree, avoid getting hit and neutralise the enemy.

I am not dissing iron palm out, I am talking about those who condition on brick walls or hard solid surfaces.Iron palm is not the concern if trained properly, but my concern is those who punch brick walls and call it conitioning.

As for taking hits, I have never heard of wong shun lung, lai sil loong, wong fei hung etc. conditioning to take hits but to improve their technique to deal more damage, act faster and use more evasive techniques. Ali is a bad example of CMA since he fights in a different manner.

Ali is a fine example of a fighter, and a fighters opponents, NO one avoids getting hit including the Gracies...as for conditioning the body, We get plenty from the boxing, wrestling and throwing etc we practice... youre right those who beat thier hands and body without proper training and mediums do more harm than good. However the legs and arms get extra conditioning like the hands and feet

[gong fu]

a part of iron fist training and other iron body training methods require you to hit hard surfaces, INCLUDING hitting brick walls.

[hung gar kelmos]

Actually punching hard objects like walls will offer you conditioning in the beginning but in the long term ie even a year later, will seriously ruin your joints and your brain. Arthritis is the major concern, next with bone spurs growing in strange directions and brain damage can be linked with conditioning on hard objects.
I agree that conditioning on hard surfaces is dangerous and even the body tries to tell you that by the pain.
The theory why hard objects are bad for conditioning I believe is that hard surfaces are much more elastic than soft surfaces.by punching a brick wall for example, if you dont hit and break the wall, the wall will repel and throw that energy back into you and thus its basically throwing that punch into you.This can be proven when you punch a wall, you are pushed back when it is done hard enough.
Massive physical damage is caused to the area of impact as you would expect, then that energy travels straight through the arm, body and all the way to the otherside.Nerve damage near the knuckle suffers severe shock and this signal is sent to the brain and because nerves send information eletrically (just a theory), this in essence is like giving your brain an electric shock, so you can guess what happens after that after doing it hundreds of times at training.

they're a problem to your thinking here
your saying punching a brick wall 100 times will screw you up and guess what
it does but now lets see here you tap it 100 times your fist will get stronger and no bad side effects the rule is ( know your limit and dont be stupid.)
now no matter what punching a brick wal your hardest once is OVER YOUR LIMIT now condidion wisely dont be stupid condition helps alot if you notice the people got extreamly old and theyre bones was still strong and no bad side effects happen. hey i condition and i have done it over a year and nothing bad has happened

[Oraenor]

a part of iron fist training and other iron body training methods require you to hit hard surfaces, INCLUDING hitting brick walls.

I have this book about iron palm at home that I borrowed by my master. This book has no reference to hitting a brick wall by any means. The author of this book is part of the yakuza(sp?) and has many demonstrations like the power of his punches and smashing over 10+ bricks. Again this guy uses dit dar jow, and trains on a pillow filled with sand beans leather strips etc with full force slaps at correct angles and places of impact. There is no recommendation of building power onto a brick wall or even hitting a brick wall.

[Oraenor]

Ali is a fine example of a fighter, and a fighters opponents, NO one avoids getting hit including the Gracies...as for conditioning the body, We get plenty from the boxing, wrestling and throwing etc we practice... youre right those who beat thier hands and body without proper training and mediums do more harm than good. However the legs and arms get extra conditioning like the hands and feet

What you are stating here are arts such as boxing and wrestling which allows you to get hit more often and is built that way.Ali is a fighter NOT a CMA and thus fight differently. There are body conditioning methods (iron vest) or just by building some abs or pecks which will offer extra protection but punishing your body with solid objects is a bad idea. As a rule of thumb, TCMA do not take as much punishment as a boxer or wrestler however this does not make us any lesser because we have other attribtes ie more tactics to utilse which evens things out.
I agree that arms and legs get extra attention so they must be trained longer but not on solid surfaces. Your arms and legs offer both attack and defence when needed.