On the mat with Jubidoo

[jubaji]

There is no basic shoot, it is an advanced move for experienced wrestlers who figured it out on their own.

You don't commit too much power to the shoot because you are not sure if you out guessed your opponent or not and may need to "change the game plan" mid shoot.

I didn't say that.

[jubaji]

There is no such thing as "basic mechanics" of a shoot other than keep your face up shoulders back and hips tucked?

Oh no, you don't want to do that. Your shoulders should actually be rounded forward (elbows in), and your neck should be 'bulled.'

[kingoftheforest]

I didn't say that.

I never said you did.

I asked if I was reading your short replies wrong to please elaborate on what you mean.

I asked for clarification after giving you incite to what I was reading.

Where are the placement of the hands and shoulder on a double leg take down. I am asking for a specific shoot that I have a general knowledge of.

To narrow it down since as you proclaimed there are so many shots and finishes.

So I am asking about a specific shoot up to the point the opponent is on the mat.

Specifically hand, and shoulder placement for a double leg take down after shooting in.

[jubaji]

You don't commit too much power to the shot because you are not sure if you out guessed your opponent or not and may need to "change the game plan" mid shoot.

I didn't say that. Going 100% and being able to respond in a dynamic moving situation is one of the skills that an experienced wrestler develops.

[jubaji]

Could you please tell me where your shoulder would land if you shot in on a stunned opponent and took him down?

How tall is he? How tall are you? How, and in what direction was he moving when you shot? What kind of finish are you looking for?

The point really isn't to get your shoulders somewhere as much as it is to get good pentration and your hands in a position to control one or more of his key structure points.

[jubaji]

I never said you did.

I asked if I was reading your short replies wrong to please elaborate on what you mean.

I asked for clarification after giving you incite to what I was reading.

Where are the placement of the hands and shoulder on a double leg take down. I am asking for a specific shoot that I have a general knowledge of.

To narrow it down since as you proclaimed there are so many shots and finishes.

So I am asking about a specific shoot up to the point the opponent is on the mat.

Specifically hand, and shoulder placement for a double leg take down after shooting in.

In the most basic way (and in perhaps an impractically generalized and idealized sense), you would hope to get deep penetration - where you can get your lead step between or even beyond his feet as you move through the opponent - and your hands in position to control one or both of his legs (with 'control' meaning blocking, unbalancing, or moving that point of structure). Where your shoulders will end up is dependent upon the above, not the other way around.


Beyond that, we are talking about the finish and not just the shot.

[kingoftheforest]

In the most basic way (and in perhaps an impractically generalized and idealized sense), you would hope to get deep penetration - where you can get your lead step between or even beyond his feet as you move through the opponent - and your hands in position to control one or both of his legs (with 'control' meaning blocking, unbalancing, or moving that point of structure). Where your should will end up is dependent upon the above, not the other way around.


Beyond that, we are talking about the finish and not just the shot.

Thanks that's all I really wanted.

[kingoftheforest]

In the most basic way (and in perhaps an impractically generalized and idealized sense), you would hope to get deep penetration - where you can get your lead step between or even beyond his feet as you move through the opponent - and your hands in position to control one or both of his legs (with 'control' meaning blocking, unbalancing, or moving that point of structure). Where your shoulders will end up is dependent upon the above, not the other way around.

BTW where does that leave the head?

[jubaji]

BTW where does that leave the head?

That's going to depend on a number of factors.

[kingoftheforest]

One of those factors being avoiding answering the questions ask to you.

I politely asked for and explanation of the shoot. But all you've been doing is trying to avoid answering it. It's because any explanation you give is going to put the head out in front of the body.

You are trying to evade the answer and dilute your responses to cover your ass.

In your above, and very crappy explanation of a double leg take down, shear physical placement puts the head in the lead.

And what's even more laughable is you are still trying to defend that you can "change up" in the middle of the shoot. Anyone who has ever wrestled or seen a shoot performed could tell that shooting in has to be a committed move.

Thanks for giving us the opportunity to watch you trip over your own feet again trying to back up that shooting doesn't lead with the head, or leave the face and head unprotected.

Your answers look like a liberal being interviewed by Fox News.

"Well kinda but not really. I don't want to commit to actually answering anything."

[jubaji]

One of those factors being avoiding answering the questions ask to you.

Not at all. I'm trying to answer carefully because you don't really seem to understand the subject in general and I don't want to mislead you.

[jubaji]

I politely asked for and explanation of the shoot. But all you've been doing is trying to avoid answering it. It's because any explanation you give is going to put the head out in front of the body.

You see? I was right to be careful, as you still seem confused despite the fact that I have taken pains to explain it to you.

In case you were wondering, yes I noticed how you tried to slip "shoulders back" into one of your 'questions.' You failed to make your agenda there (and with your 'polite' questions in general) as that guess was quite wrong. I would say nice try, but it really wasn't.

[jubaji]

Remember this?

To "lead" means to go first to guide and direct. If you "lead" with your head, meaning you deliberately put it out ahead of your body as the first line of penetration, you are going to get snapped down into a front headlock, shucked aside, or eat a bone-crunching crossface. The idea is to keep the head, neck, and shoulders in a vertical plane as much as possible given the dynamics of the movement and the relative position/movement of your opponent. You should also keep your hips under you as much as possible as you close, which will vary according to the kind of shot as well as the other variables mentioned above. If anything is going to 'lead' it will be the hands and the lead leg. Now' if you drop a plumb line from the shooters nose at any point along the way, will it fall flat across his chest? Given human anatomy and the dynamics of the movement in relation to the opponent's movement, probably not, but that does not mean you 'lead' with your head. This is a classic case of not understanding what you are looking at. Now, we could get into knee to shoulder position, setting up the shot, dynamic movement vs ideal form (a tough concept for you role-play types) but that should be enough to give you the basic idea IF you really want to understand.

Those were good times.

[jubaji]

And what's even more laughable is you are still trying to defend that you can "change up" in the middle of the shoot. Anyone who has ever wrestled or seen a shoot performed could tell that shooting in has to be a committed move.

Another of your many misunderstandings is in assuming the two are mutually exclusive. This shows your complete lack of experience. That is not your fault, but this pissy attitude of yours is.

[jubaji]

You know, if you really wanted to learn something about wrestling it would be ok to stop feeling as if you had to defend some theoretical view of the world and leave the agenda aside for a little bit.