If Bruce had Lived.

[Guest]

Imagine Bruce Lee had lived, and was still alive today.

Would JKD have anything like as much Kali in it as it does now? If not, why do many believe that Dan Inosanto has got it right?

[Calv1n]

We are all climbing different paths through the mountain of life, and we have all experienced much hardship and strife.
There are many paths through the mountain of life, and some climbs can be felt like the point of a knife.
Some paths are short and others are long, who can say which path is right or wrong?
The beauty of truth is that each path has its own song, and if you listen closely you will find where you belong.
So climb your own path true and strong, but respect all other truths for your way for them could be wrong.

-Dan Inosanto

there is your answer....

[Lizard]

Could you translate that into something understandable?

[swan104]

To be honest, I don't know!!! Kali stuff does seem to fit in well with JKD and boxing.

They say Bruce did study a bit of Kali. I'm just curious as to how much he looked into the art? I believe Dan had already been looking into Kali whilst he was still studying with Bruce (correct me if I'm wrong guys and girls). I wonder what Bruce thought of Kali, and what Dan showed him?

I think Bruce would have looked into Kali in detail at some point to improve his weapons fighting skills. I think he would have come up with his "own way" of weapons fighting though.

All we can do is guess....

[Szczepankiewicz]

What if a frog had wings?

Would he still bump his ass a'hoppin all the time?????

This has got to be an all time low for the Bit Meister.....

[Guest]

Aww come on Spunker. Just coz I slagged off another of your reviews......

The question is a very valid one. JKD people make all kinds of claims as to the value of Kali weaponry in improving empty hand skills. But this idea only came about when a Kali Master took over the art they practice.

I personally don't think that Kali would have had anything like the influence on JKD that it currently has. And I think this goes some way to negating the claims of the advantages of Kali practice.

[Szczepankiewicz]

No, that's not it. I certainly enjoy watching you shag off Bitty.

I just can't believe you of all people posted a 'what if' thread....

Next you'll be telling us that Hikuta is the shite!

Spanky

[Guest]

What if it is?

I've got you now!!!!!!!!!

[Szczepankiewicz]

I KNEW it! That man was right all along!!!!!

[Ryu (JKD?)]

While I greatly respect Mr. Inosanto, and think him an endearing man, I don't like his poem.

Some paths are short and others are long, who can say which path is right or wrong?

This is relativistic bullshit plain and simple. Yes you can say which path is right or wrong. If I wish to teach women effective self-defense against rapists and have them hop on one foot and poke their noses at them, I don't care how much I "believe" this to be effective, it will not be.

If I claim that my path to religious liberation involves raping women and torturing children, you better believe you can PROVE that this path is"wrong." And someone else's is "right."

Who can say which path is right or wrong? The people with the correct paths. How do you prove it? Education, history, experience, science, logic, and philosophy.

Now, having said all that and making everyone drop their jaws at the "NERVE of RYU!" Let me say this.

I do not think Dan's poem is a nihilistic relativist statement. (Only because nihilistic relativism is not the call of the intelligent thinkers) But I do feel that a lot of MA people take these kinds of quotes at face value, and many do hold this relativistic "you can't tell me I'm doing it wrong!!" crybaby garbage.

Yes those who have the know how can tell you you're wrong. In MA as well as science, philosophy, morality, etc.

I think that poems such as this inspire the idea that there are differences in people's paths to realistic fighting ability. Some are better strikers than grapplers, some are better grapplers than strikers. Some favor weapons and find they can utilize those in most situations, others find that their kicks have been developed to a realistic degree, and not many can hang with them.

THIS is what that "who's to say" stuff really means. I just don't like how it's put, because it's too easy to be taken as just trivial relativity.

Do NOT think people can train however they want and it means they can all be equal in value. No. Value comes with the right way of doing things. This doesn't mean you can't put "kali" in with JKD concepts (Especially if you're Dan Inosanto!)
But it doesn't mean you can do whatever you want and not take responsibility for it.

End of rant.

Ryu

[terry]

Originally posted by Bri Thai
JKD people make all kinds of claims as to the value of Kali weaponry in improving empty hand skills.

Um, JKD people aren't of one mind on this issue:

1) Some people think that JKD is a pristine product that should be preserved as it was taught originally. (Personally, I think that 'original' breaks down under close scrutiny given the rate of change. But that's another post.)

2) Some people think that JKD and FMA do go well together. This includes the majority of people whom have studied directly with Inosanto. Their logic goes: It was Lee who encouraged Inosanto to research Muay Thai, Pentjak Silat and the FMA. But it was Inosanto who survived to carry out much of that research.

3) Other people, and I run into some of these among the pinoy community in N. Cal, think that you shouldn't dilute a perfectly good FMA with JKD.

4) Then there is the 'just shut up and train' category. (Many fighters are in this category.)

Terry

[dragonboy]

who cares what martial art mixes whith what, dilutes this or that...its the individual who makes it work, not the art. its not what bruce or dan can do, its what can u do. "you can teach what you have been taught, but cant express what you havnt experienced"....

[ceasarx]

Correct if I am wrong but is'nt JKD suppose to be the way of no way. I believe the concept of JKD is to take what works and get rid of what doesnt. The art it self is more of a way of thinking and not a dedication to any martial arts system. So I think Bruce would have been ok with it if was done with the right mentality.

[Szczepankiewicz]

Who cares? Well, I care. Does that count?

If there weren't people who discussed the higher level philosophical topics of MA the world would have even more McDojos and arts like Hikuta and Lethalo and all those 'most deadly arts' in Black Belt Magazine would be running unchecked.

It would be similar to all the morons in our governments thinking they know what's best for the rest of us when all they care about is staying in office and keeping the money flowing in. The ignorant leading the blind fools.

So yes, it is VERY important that JKD maintain a proper path to where the collection of philosophies are going. Just think of all the knuckleheads who have been repeating the bullshit that 80% of all fights go to the ground and you can 'submit' someone in a 'real' fight on the 'street'.

[terry]

Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
Who cares? Well, I care. Does that count?

If there weren't people who discussed the higher level philosophical topics of MA the world would have even more McDojos and arts like Hikuta and Lethalo and all those 'most deadly arts' in Black Belt Magazine would be running unchecked.

If you were to substitute in the above quotation the words "actually fight against an opponent who is actually fighting back" for "discussed the higher level philosophical topics of MA" then I would concur with this statement. Stated as is, I'm skeptical.

T