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good call on us ITF practitioners
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Oh... I'm sorry. Let me rephrase that. TKD is a traditional art, not a military art. Either way, the same techniques are employed by both ITF and WTF...Originally posted by Damian Mavis
WHOA WHOA Great Sage! Easy on the generalisations! I am not part of the WTF that practices sport "olympic" style TKD and neither are hundreds of thousands of other TKD practitioners world wide. Granted there are millions of WTF'ers so it's easy to forget that there are other forms of TKD out there but we are there. Please don't call all TKD sport. We train like a traditional martial arts school, not like a sport school.
Damian Mavis
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"Either way, the same techniques are employed by both ITF and WTF"
Maybe a bunch of techniques but those are the same techniques used by karate, kungfu, kickboxing and a bunch of other arts all using similar techniques. You're saying it's the techniques fault and not the application of them or the way people train them? Uh... alot of Muay Thai techniques are damn similar to the rest of the martial arts worlds techniques but the application or training methods are different. So which is it? We in the ITF train differently than WTF... just like Muay Thai trains differently than karate and so on, but these are all striking arts! The moves are all pretty much the same! A knee strike in karate is similar to a knee strike in TKD or Muay Thai. My point is that what seperates striking arts isn't so much the techniques but the way those arts train and apply their techniques.
Damian Mavis
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Hello everyone, just passing through and felt the need to comment.
Tae Kwon Do in its very nature is a military martial art. After all the word 'martial' does refer to the military!
TKD's origins (as can most Korean MA's) can be dated back to Teakkyon. General Choi only learned the hand and foot striking techniques and along with the Karate that he already knew, he termed this new martial art as Tae Kwon Do in 1955. Unfortunately Because of this the pressure points half was never incorporated into TKD.
Choi's style was known as the I.T.F. style and was taught to the whole military. It is unheard of for a member of the Korean Army not to be well into the Dan grades.
When soldiers attend parade they must stand in the military formation of the highest rank at the front right, as is seen in every Dojang with the highest ranking student.
It was only after a big political fall out that the new government changed TKD to the W.T.F. style as it is known today, which then went on to accepted into the olympics.
If anything only the W.T.F. style could be called a sport, but both the I.T.F. style and the W.T.F. style are definately military arts - always have been, and always will be.
If you think about it TKD is more of a martial (military) art than some other styles!
Garth Barnard.
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Tae Bo? That's about the only thing I can think of that's less military than TKD.If you think about it TKD is more of a martial (military) art than some other styles!
Not this nonsense again...Unfortunately Because of this the pressure points half was never incorporated into TKD
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Ryanhall, TKD is the single most military like martial art I've ever seen. Being military like doesn't mean anything other than the fact that the discipline is high, a little too high for alot of other martial artists, they think the amount of discipline and forced respect is weird. It is a little wierd but it's the way I was brought up in the martial arts so think it's weird when I see other martial arts schools not responding "YES SIR!" to every little command their instructor makes. Rank and seniority count for so much in our style, and you never refer to a senior by their first name or it's a complete breach of protocol.
The founder of the ITF (and some say TKD) was in the military so maybe that is why we all act like we are in the military, it's the way he taught us to behave.
None of the many karate schools or kung fu schools or any other martial arts schools I have seen has been as militaryesque as we are. I'm not saying this is a good thing, just that you are mistaken about TKD not being military like. If anything it is one of our biggest faults.
Damian Mavis
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Damian,
You make a good point. My definition of 'military' had to do with general combat efficacy of the training methods and tools of the art. In that sense, TKD is very un-military.
However, in terms of attitude, I would agree that a TKD class is run like a boot camp with a bunch of out of shape people and kids replacing the recruits. Naturally, the out of shape comment is a generalization, but one must note that most traditional martial arts schools are populated by those who don't prioritize physical fitness the same way that a combat athlete would.Comment
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ryanhall, I take it from your response that they teach comedy in the clubs in which you train!
TKD is a military art, there's no doubt about that, and only a fool would suggest otherwise. Of all the styles that you have personally experienced, which would you term as a military art? Boxing certainly isn't!
I find your sweeping generalisation with regards to TKD and its participants to be laughable, as well as disrespectful to the point of being offensive!
I'm pretty sure you will come back with yet another 'flippant' and 'farcicle' comment to prove beyond doubt what I already think of your opinions.
Kindest regards,
Garth Barnard.
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I see our new friend Garth is on the fast track to both a reality check and a smack bottom...
Ryan, don't waste your time. It's prolly another one of KG's many accounts.
SpankyComment
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Awwwwe, our first fight.Originally posted by Szczepankiewicz
I see our new friend Garth is on the fast track to both a reality check and a smack bottom...
Ryan, don't waste your time. It's prolly another one of KG's many accounts.
Spanky
Spanky, which comes first, the reality check or the smacked bottom?
The 'KG' bit, could you run that past me again, I haven't the 'foggiest' what you're on about?
Seriously though, I've studied martial arts for over 22 years now and the one thing I have learnt is that you can't change history - TKD is a military art. You can't argue with that. You can try, but you'll only end up making sweeping generalised statements that aren't true, as has already happend.
Take is easy fellas,
Garth Barnard.
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Can't argue that.I see our new friend Garth is on the fast track to both a reality check and a smack bottom...
Good call.Ryan, don't waste your timeComment
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Bah that's a cop out, debate is what the forum is all about, don't ignore people unless they are rude.
I agree that the majority of TKD dojangs are populated by families (little kids, and their middle aged parents) So of course the ability level of most TKD artists is going to be pretty low. There are fighters in TKD that are very serious and very fit but they are the minority in an art over run with families.
But of course TKD instructors also make a crapload of money because they cater to a large percentage of the population (families).
Damian Mavis
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Damian,Originally posted by Damian Mavis
Ryanhall, TKD is the single most military like martial art I've ever seen. Being military like doesn't mean anything other than the fact that the discipline is high, a little too high for alot of other martial artists, they think the amount of discipline and forced respect is weird. It is a little wierd but it's the way I was brought up in the martial arts so think it's weird when I see other martial arts schools not responding "YES SIR!" to every little command their instructor makes. Rank and seniority count for so much in our style, and you never refer to a senior by their first name or it's a complete breach of protocol.
I won't "cop-out" with my explanation. TKD is integrated into the Korean Military now, but it is was not developed as a military art during Korea's military exploits. The Koreans use it as a fitness and perhaps training tool, but the fact of the matter is that it did not develop as part of warfare, nor was it ever used in warfare. It's combat applications and theories have never been used in war. During the Japanese occupation of Korea, Koreans learned karate which they later moded into TKD.
As I've stated before, TKD is a post-war development. It was not developed to combat soldiers, weapons or any of that nonsense. People who try to justify TKD in terms of it's military background have yet to prove anything tangible. For starters, it's clear that TKD doesn't owe any of it's roots to Hwrang Do or Tae Kyun. Hwa Hrang Do (mispl) was long gone before TKD arrived and anyone who has ever observed Tae Kyun will tell you that there is very little similarities between the two systems whether it be kicking or theories.
TKD, in all regards is Korean karate. The kicks are exactly the same, except with more emphasis. The hand techniques are the same, although many of the circular movements have been filtered. That much of it is FACT.
Most martial arts will reflect some sort of tradition, lineage. Karate, the code of Bushido and Kendo were adopted into the Japanese Military and by all accounts had a profound effect on Korea. No doubt that an art that was carried over from karate would hold some military conduct.Originally posted by Damian Mavis
The founder of the ITF (and some say TKD) was in the military so maybe that is why we all act like we are in the military, it's the way he taught us to behave.
At my dojang, we also were very militant, but that doesn't mean we were actually practicing military arts. We probably looked more ridiculous than military in pajamas.Originally posted by Damian Mavis
None of the many karate schools or kung fu schools or any other martial arts schools I have seen has been as militaryesque as we are. I'm not saying this is a good thing, just that you are mistaken about TKD not being military like. If anything it is one of our biggest faults.
Damian Mavis
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Don't confuse the idea here. TKD is an indirect product of war, but it wasn't forged through war. There's a difference between being militarysque and actually being military. Bunker raids are military, digging holes is military, TKD is NOT.Comment
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Very true, but there is plenty of documentation to prove that 'Korean Karate' was actually used in some isolated instances to dispatch North Koreans during the early years of the Korean war.Originally posted by Great Sage
TKD, in all regards is Korean karate.
So, would you then accept the the precursor to TKD was actually a military art, therefore after being renamed, TKD is a military art?
Regards,
Garth Barnard
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If a soldier punches someone in the chops, does that make Boxing a military art?Comment
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