Most useless Martial Arts styles

[Clubber Lang]

You said people who train in combat sports for real violence are wasting their time, I’m here to tell you that’s bullshit.

You said that Kung Fu is far more deadly for real violence, I’m here to tell you that’s bullshit.

This point of view is from my own experiences, real life, real situations, real violence. I’m not the least bit interested in your desperate, theoretical fumblings as a response.

If you have something real to add from your own personal experiences, your own life, your own practical use of Kung Fu in violent encounters, then let’s have it. If not, then for the last time, STFU.

[TigerClaw]

You said people who train in combat sports for real violence are wasting their time, I’m here to tell you that’s bullshit.

I said if they train for the sport aspect it is not as combative training. Yes there will be obvious fighting applications. But if it is training for TV sport with gloves rules and many restrictions, that kind of fighting is not as effective as a street ready combative survival training like Kung Fu. I think it is not as good a use of time, if you want to have real life combat survival training for the streets. I do not train for sport, but for survival, I am not going to waste my time training for sport and vainglory instead of for self defense and survival and helping others. I am sure that any martial arts can be used for the street and I am not attacking any in particular. But I am pointing out the difference between SPORT and real COMBAT.

You seemed to miss my point entirely.

You said that Kung Fu is far more deadly for real violence, I’m here to tell you that’s bullshit.

Go read my last post again before you attack. I do believe that Kung Fu is more deadly in techniques and applications and it has a long history of real life combat fighting. Many traditional Kung Fu styles had developed over periods for actual combat fighting. I am not speaking of some Wu Shu acrobatics here.

I also did not say that martial arts like jujitsu and judo and ninjitsu are not deadly, they also can be very effective in combat.

This point of view is from my own experiences, real life, real situations, real violence. I’m not the least bit interested in your desperate, theoretical fumblings as a response.

Your experiences are very limited. just because you throw out some bums or drunken stumbling people is not the kind of thing i am talking about. Like I said before you most likely have never really had to fight a real kung fu master who is focused and sober.Not that I am saying you should, I am just trying to speak in reality here. And you experience did not mention Kung Fu in it so you are unqualified to judge what real Kung Fu looks like, I am fairly sure that the so called kung Fu people you fought were not Kung Fu practitioners at all. If even one of them was they must have had very limited training or were drunk.

Also I have had experiences also. and I have seen many fights.

If you have something real to add from your own personal experiences, your own life, your own practical use of Kung Fu in violent encounters, then let’s have it. If not, then for the last time, STFU.

I have had real life experiences, and I have mentioned just some of them in other post. But usually when a stronger kick boxing grappling type of men has attacked me the situation does not last long. Some of the strong aggressive attackers that I have dealt with often expose their footwork and strike by their telegraphing and they seemed to move almost in slow motion.

But as far as other real life experience, just go read some of the historical accounts of famous Kung Fu fighters of the past and you will see that there is alot more experience and real life combat fighting than you have been expsosed to in their history.

You may say, those are just stories, well you told your stories also. We can either believe them or not.

If not, then for the last time, STFU.

If I can make a personal comment about you here. Your attitude is wrong and you seem like a scrapper to me, a man that has to prove alot of things. You sound like you think you are so great at fighting that you can take anyone of any style especially all Kung Fu fighters. Your stance is a very arrogant one and you make for the worst Kind of martial artist in my opinion.

Eventually there is always others that can overtake any one of us. No matter how good we think we are there is always someone better.

I think you have never fought a real Kung Fu fighter. Perhaps you fought some drunken wannbees and those who took some weak stance etc. but since you are no experienced in Kung Fu ( as you said in your training history), you are not even qualified to make such attacks upon the kung Fu stylist or even to discern if they were in fact real skilled kung fu fighters..

Remember, kung Fu has a massive history and some of the most advanced combative fighting techniques in the world. And as far as resistant non compliant opponent. Kung Fu has this also in their training. But it is needful to "PULL" our techniques so the other is not seriously hurt.

You said that you had some try to attack your eyes and chop your throat etc. Well, if a real Kung Fu master was doing such techniques, most men would not get back up again. Except of course you, who make yourself out to be the greatest fighter on the planet, who can easily overcome any Kung Fu master there is and who mocks an entire style that is composed of many different styles.

I think all other Kung Fu practitioners can judge you by this statement you made,

"So no, Kung Fu isn't more deadly in reality, its worth **** all in my experience, and you are talking complete bullshit."

Your experience is very limited and the question will always be there, "did you really fight anyone who knows any Kung Fu at all?".

Even if you did fight one beginner in a kung Fu school who was in a drunken stupper. You most likely have also fought those who think they are MMA fighters also, or whop had Jujitsu training etc, and overcame some of them. Does that mean that MMA is useless also?

Wake up man!! and stop with your ridiculous talk.

[Clubber Lang]

Tiger Claw,

Go and do 20 years of martial arts, then come back and talk to me.

Go and spend 6 years night after night standing up to people, armed with anything and everything, including the intent to kill, and tell me how easy you think bouncing is.

Go and train with professional boxers, world class grapplers, and get in the ring and fight good Muay Thai people, then come back and tell me how real you think sports are.

When you've done that, we'll talk more. For now, see you later.

[TigerClaw]

Tiger Claw,

Go and do 20 years of martial arts, then come back and talk to me.

I am a Kung Fu teacher, I started Kung Fu when I was around 19 I am 46 years old now. I have trained under three different masters and had many instructors. I presently teach at two locations and I was an instructor at one of the clubs in the past and a advanced level class at another club. I have also taught privately and I have taught another master privately as well. I have studied traditional kung Fu and other styles my leaning includes Hung Gar Northern Shaolin, Choty Li Fut, Praying Mantis, Snake style, White Crane, as well as different weapons training, etc etc etc.

Go and spend 6 years night after night standing up to people, armed with anything and everything, including the intent to kill, and tell me how easy you think bouncing is.

'

I never said Bouncing is easy. I also know another man who was a bouncer and he teaches as well, and he respects Kung Fu. Most of those people you meet in confrontations are not going to be well trained disciplined Kung Fu practitioners.

Go and train with professional boxers, world class grapplers, and get in the ring and fight good Muay Thai people, then come back and tell me how real you think sports are.

Like I said, I don't study sport fighting. And I have trained with well trained martial artist and I have trained with men of other styles also.

And I was hired by a MMA gym to teach Kung Fu recently, but I turned them down because of the distance I would have to travel.

Any more questions.

Like I said go and research how powerful in combat Kung Fu has been in history. Kung Fu has been around for a long time, or should I say specific Chinese martial arts.

You may want to read about men like, Hung Hei Goon , Huo Yuan Jia, Wong Fei Hung, to name just a few, not to mention some of the Shaolin Monks through history.

[jubaji]

Uh oh, ten minutes to Wapner....definately....definately...ten minutes to Wapner...

[Middleweight]

Having done Karate ( Wado and Ashihara) TKD(ITF) MT/dutch styleKickboxing and MMA, I have to conclude none Good at selfdefence certainly not when done 2-4 hours a week
fact that things works more then a century ago doesn't mean shite
Also some of you guys aren't very hounest, for instance Karate is no good because of walking up and down punching air and Kata yet Kyokushin is considered good whlie they do exactly the same
It is obvious that anything not full contact without protection is considered crap
If you are into MA soley for Selfdefence reasons you are waisting your time
It is going to take a shitload of training hours to even become a good competetive fighter which has little to do with selfdefence, you know when you will be competing but not when you will be in a SD situation
Also you can't compare a GSP to someone training 2x a week for 1 or 2 hours

but hey yhat all just my opinion, you are free to think otherwise

The US Marines learn how to take out an enemy in just 13 weeks of totally intense training.

If one needs 'several years' of training to be able to defend themselves in the street, then they are better off buying a gun... OR, stay away from trouble areas, eg: bars, sleazy night clubs, etc

I say Boxing/military hand to hand. Wrestling/boxing. Judo/boxing, You need to know break holds, a few takedowns, chokes, and an arm bar. IN 7 months of boxing, you can have enough power to knock a man out with one solid punch. Most important is street savvy. Most soldiers have this. Most MA haven't.

What good is a flying spin kick in a hallway or between two parked cars?

In defence of karate, it teaches use of the elbows. Very effective. Nothing wrong with owning a good fast kick, either. Even if it just makes the opponent flinch. Backfist is a good punch, but not always a finisher. Main prob with Karate is you are stiff as a board. I can't move 'fluidly' when tensed up.

Just my opinion. That, and a dollar will buy you a coffee at Starbucks

[Middleweight]

Clubber lang said in his post post,

"I worked as a doorman for over six years. In that time, myself and the teams I worked with encountered "real life combat.....I've lost count of how many Bruce Lee types we encountered on the pavement, who tried all their Kung Fu on us, and it was a joke. I have had guys pull stances on me, tried to trap my hands, kick my knee, wrench my arm, chop my throat, finger jab my eyes.......and all of them dropped just the same as everyone else. Those are fine motor skill techniques that work against a compliant training partner, as part of a demonstration, in your Kwoon. They turn to shit and mean nothing when your body is in adrenal surge and is faced with an aggressive, determined, resisting opponent. In every instance when someone tried their Jet Li shit, it came a very sorry second to simple blunt force trauma. A hard right hand to the jaw, a kick like a baseball bat, or slamming someone onto the pavement - thats what stops people. So no, Kung Fu isn't more deadly in reality, its worth **** all in my experience, and you are talking complete bullshit.


You are very wrong. And the few so called Kung Fu fighters that you thought were Kung Fu fighters, most likely weren't . Kung Fu has been around for a long, long time, and been used in many real life combat situations, and life and death situations in the past and all through history. You couldn't be more wrong.

You said you worked as a doorman. Most likely the kind of people that got into fights where you worked were drunk , (which would mean they are not focused or disciplined), and the kind of Kung Fu fighters I talk of do not get into drunken bar scraps. It is not that hard to overcome any martial artist when they are drunk, assuming that some of them were. But most likely you have only met a handful of so called Kung Fu fighters, who may have taken a class here or there, or who were just posers and had no martial skill at all.. I am not talking about a man who tries to take a stance and has no idea what he is doing.


In my training and in many other schools, there was non compliant hard sparring and we go hurt at times on hard floors, with bloody faces and smashed everywhere. You really are using a large brush and have no real idea what you are talking about. To say the fights you see as a doorman represent the quality of Kung Fu masters worldwide is very weak and not a good representation of Kung Fu.

Like I said, if you were a doorman and had to fight others, they were most likely drunk and in no condition to fight at all, and they most likely had no Kung Fu experience or real training at all. I am curious if you ever asked them what training they had. To see a man take a stance and some hand positioning, does not mean they were Kung Fu fighters. There are so many more westernized martial arts out there that have nothing to do with Kung Fu that many have been involved in, real Kung Fu is more rare in the Western society.. I believe you are very wrong and unfair in your judgement and most likely have never even fought a real kung fu master.

Most likely you have had a few scraps kicking drunken men out who may have taken some pathetic stance and had no real skill at all, or they may have jumped around like a kick boxer.

Remember when I speak of Kung Fu practitioners, I speak of the persons who have studied it long enougfh to make it work for them in combat. A bar brawler who gets drunk and kicked out of a club etc, is not the person I am speaking of. Most lower level martial artist with minimal experience in many styles could overcome a drunk brawler.

And most drunken brawlers don't know how to do proper techniques or vital strike attacks etc.
But if you really understood my basic premise about Kung Fu as opposed to sport fighting in the ring and on TV. I was saying that Kung Fu can not be fully expressed in such a sport environment.

And by the way all the techniques you said that the so called "kung Fu guys" tried on your and didn't work. I first of all doubt your sincerity there, and secondly, all those techniques done right would stop you and maime you if done correctly by a real Kung Fu master. Yes, if they are done by some undisciplined man who knows nothing about kung fu and is drunk, they will be useless.

Your whole argument is questioneable and you have no facts presented. You cannot prove that the so called Bruce lee types were in fact Kung Fu fighters with many years experience, and you cannt prove that they even knew Kung Fu. Since your training did not specify Kung Fu, You are unqualified to judge if they were in fact using real Kung Fu. Many wannabees may try in a drunken stupper to immitate Bruce Lee etc. But that has nothing to do with a real Kung Fu master or those who have disciplined their fighting skills.

I am sure you could just as easily said that you met some who had Boxing experience and they went to the pavement, or Mauy thai, or Judo etc and they went to the pavement.

Your argument is meaningless.

Too long.

[Middleweight]

.............................................

Now that's the brightest thing you've said all week

[TigerClaw]

You make so many assumptions here, I don't even know where to begin. Hopefully, your assumptions that the opponent facing you is drunk and therefore has no skill, won't get you killed someday.

I did make that assumptions because he said he was a doorman. Most likely he was a doorman at a place that served drinks, and most likely his fights had to do with people who were drunk. I also assume that many people who are sober would not fight with a bouncer for nothing. So I think it is safe to say they had some drinks and most likely drunken stumbling off balanced and not focused fighters.

But he made many assumptions also. Especially the assumption that they were even kung fu practitioners. He mentioned Bruce lee type fighting, and Jet li. But Jet Li does Wu Shu and not so much the traditional kung Fu I talk of. He also assmued many things about me and my experience and he was wrong.

And I did say in my post,

"It is not that hard to overcome any martial artist when they are drunk, assuming that some of them were."

So I covered myself.

Like I said before, I am very careful what I say.

[TigerClaw]

If one needs 'several years' of training to be able to defend themselves in the street, then they are better off buying a gun... OR, stay away from trouble areas, eg: bars, sleazy night clubs, etc

Kung Fu takes time to get good at and in the end I believe is far better than some styles because of its techniques and fluidity.

But a person can have a crash course in a short time and learn many basic defensive techniques. Also the reason for more intense training is when you meet those who have training as well. Against the average Joe, there are not many techniques needed. But against a skilled fighter more is needed.

[QUOTE=Middleweight;315607] I say Boxing/military hand to hand. Wrestling/boxing. Judo/boxing, You need to know break holds, a few takedowns, chokes, and an arm bar. IN 7 months of boxing, you can have enough power to knock a man out with one solid punch. Most important is street savvy. Most soldiers have this. Most MA haven't.

Kung Fu styles have many things as well as ground fighting, But as far as the Solidier training consider this quoyte from Black bel magazine,

""...I am appauled that some units learn Brazillian jujitsu and are encouraged to fight on the ground...But the idea is to immediately dislodge the person and recover the dominant standing position. It's not about grappling and rolling on the ground." (pg 91 Black Belt Magazine) He is speaking of military units.

Main prob with Karate is you are stiff as a board. I can't move 'fluidly' when tensed up.

Try Kung Fu then, it is full of fluidity and circular moves as well as strait forward moves. There is a massive variety within Chinese martial arts.

[Tant01]

It seems clear TC has swallowed his own dogma "hook, line and sinker".

Sadly lost in his own little world...

Some of the MOST violent attacks I've ever seen have been at the door of some club or bar.

[TigerClaw]

It seems clear TC has swallowed his own dogma "hook, line and sinker".

Sadly lost in his own little world...

Some of the MOST violent attacks I've ever seen have been at the door of some club or bar.

Not me, I have seen drunken brawlers scrapping at the doors of clubs, but I have seen more violent attacks on the street in the Subway, in malls etc.

The man who said Kung Fu was **** and basically useless, has no real understanding of Kung Fu. It seems that many will believe a Bouncer who has no Kung Fu experience and who has fought drunken brawlers over Kung Fu teacher. I guess many swallow the "he's a bouncer, so he must know what real fighting is, impression, hook, line and sinker."

The same goes for many MMA fighters, some will consider them "real "fighters, because they see blood in the fighting and what appears to be real fighting. But they seem to forget the gloves they were the many, many, many rules and restrictions for sport fighting. Also, in the training I had we got bloody and fought very hard.

I haven't swallowed any hook. I have tested, examined, studied and developed what I have learned and it works, plain and simple. I cannot speak for every other Kung Fu practitioner in how they learn and study etc, but with me it has been a long journey. I do know that the style is only as good as the man in it.

When you say,

"Sadly lost in his own little world"

You seem to forget the Kung Fu world is not a little world, it is a massive world and it has strong traditional roots that stem way back.

[JadeDragon]

It seems clear TC has swallowed his own dogma "hook, line and sinker".

Sadly lost in his own little world...

Some of the MOST violent attacks I've ever seen have been at the door of some club or bar.

I agree, and not all of them have been by drunks. Some have been sober and started a fight because they were denied entry to the bar due to presenting fake i.d.'s. Just because a fight happens in a bar does not always mean that the participants were drunk. I worked at a pub as a door man/bouncer/bar back and had to break up many fights and not all were drunk. I also have used mma moves to restrain the patrons. TigerClaw has said in a previous posts that mma is useless in "real" fights and that it is a sport art....this is just assinine to state. I have used the rear naked choke to escort the patron out the front door. I've used the rear naked choke and reverse guard to restrain a bigger and stronger person until another bouncer came to help me escort the unruley gent out of the establishment. I've used my kung fu skills as well by applying a chin na technique to "walk" the person to and out the front door of the pub.

[TigerClaw]

TigerClaw has said in a previous posts that mma is useless in "real" fights and that it is a sport art....this is just assinine to state.

I did not say the fighting style of MMA is useless. I made a distinction between sport and combat, that's all. I think this is what i said,

"If a person was going to learn either Kung Fu , or MMA style SPORT fighting for the ring and wear gloves and be forbidden to use certain techniques. I would say the Kung Fu fighting for self defense, survival combat, would be far more useful in reality"

I was not reffering to a drunk person in a bar or a man trying to get into a bar. There are also restrictions for the bouncers. But yes, many non lethal techniques can and should be used based on the situation.

What's hypocritical in the Clubber Lang thinking is that he said he beat many Kung Fu guys to the pavement. But I am sure that he beat Judo guys and MMA guys also, and yet he does not slam them for such actions. And to defeat a few undisciplined men who he MAY think are Kung Fu fighters does not any any means justify slamming the entire style of Kung Fu as he clearly did. What if a Kung Fu master was a bouncer and he had to kick out a few MMA guys with Tap out shirts and they were new to the MMA training and he beat them to the pavement. Would it be right for that man to slam all MMA fighters as useless for a few men he slammed. If he did, wouldn't some MMA guy say, that those guys were just beginners, try it on a expert. Well the same could be said about Kung Fu guys, if they were in fact that. I very seriously doubt that Clubber Lang ever fought any real kung fu experts.

By the way, Kung Fu has many grappling techniques and Locks and restraining techniques also.

Jadedragon, I am surprised you defend this guy, he said Kung Fu was **** and basically useless. He would no doubt attack your snake style as useless also. In fact he did by these statements,

"I've lost count of how many Bruce Lee types we encountered on the pavement, who tried all their Kung Fu on us, and it was a joke. I have had guys pull stances on me, tried to trap my hands, kick my knee, wrench my arm, chop my throat, finger jab my eyes.......and all of them dropped just the same as everyone else...So no, Kung Fu isn't more deadly in reality, its worth **** all in my experience,

The interesting thing is he doesn't even prove that the people he fought knew Kung Fu. I would not say a man knows Chinese Kung Fu just because he takes a bruce lee type of pose. This is his ridiculous argument.

[Clubber Lang]

It's never going to end with this character, believe me. Nothing any of us say will ever make a dent in his massive, massive ego. We cannot change his mind, nor even get him to consider anything else. He is firmly stuck in a rut, and won't ever get out.

Do you all notice that no matter how much sense we make, he comes back with more pages that essentially say NOTHING? He keeps repeating the same "dogma" over and over, about how his Kung Fu is tested, and tested, and never fails and always passes muster.

This man is not a martial artist at all. If he is, he is simply a strip mall martial artist, and that basically counts for nothing.

He responds essentially the same way very religious people do. All he has is faith, but can prove nothing in the laboratory that is real life, real combat, real altercations. But just like super religious people, you cannot change their minds once their brain chemistry is kicking in, and influencing thier thought process.

I just feel sorry for his students (if he really has any besides his own son).

It does not matter to this troll that there are people on this board with years of experience. I don't get the attitude, except that this is not who he says he is, but actually, he is a MMA troll trying his hardest to "gotcha" everyone on this forum. It's working, because we all respond.

I wonder what would happen if NO ONE responded anymore. Can we make the leap and just ignore this troll? Watch how fast he withers away once no one keeps feeding him.

I am making the personal decision to not engage this troll in any more communication, not on this thread or any other.

For me, it stops here.

With you all the way.